IH 2400b with D179 starting problems

So I purchased an IH 2400 that needed a rebuild. Not a problem, I have rebuilt motors before. Well...The engine is all back together and it will start and run on either but it wont keep running. I figure its fuel and have been bleeding and bleeding the fuel system and believe all the air is out but still wont start or fun without the either.

This leads me to think that its either the injectors or the injection pump timing. I lined up all the marks on the gears as the manual says but am unclear about the injector pump timing. Does lining up the dots on the gear mean its timed or do I need to put the specific number on the injector pump gear on the dot of the idler pulley gear?

Fuel does squirt out of the lines off the injector pump, and it does not back fire or do anything. It makes me think that either the injectors are not opening or its timing is completely off.

Thanks for any help. Really need this old girl up and running soon.

Did you remove the pump timing plate cover to check the camplate scribe line, should align with the pointer at 14 BTDC on the crank pulley.

All I did was line all the timing marks up on the gears. I guess I am a little unclear on the whole timing issue. I aligned them like the picture below.

I made sure the key on the injector pump was at 11 o'clock and thats it.

When the engine is running on ether it does not sound out of time as far as cam and crank, but I dont think I have the injector pump timing correct.

I guess I am in need to a step by step process to make sure I am at 14 degrees.

The timing gear should have numbers next to the timing marks. For a D179 you need to time the idler gear mark to number 3 on the injection pump drive gear.

Do you get white "smoke" out the exhaust while cranking? If yes the problem's a timing issue.

However if nothing's coming out the stack no fuel is being injected. Most likely cause is a bit of air trapped between the pump and the injectors. The first thing I'd do then is go through the fuel system bleeding process, following the manufacturer's directions EXACTLY.

I do get white smoke out of the exhaust while cranking. I will try messing with the timing today or tomorrow and get back to everyone.

Hi Charlie, my guess it is 180* out of time. The Bosch pump only turns at 1/2 the speed of the crankshaft so to correct the problem, scribe a mark on the pump gear to the drive hub, next remove the 3 cap screws from the slots in the pump drive gear and rotate the drive hub 1 revolution in direction of normal rotation and align scribe marks and re-install cap screws.
Like someone else mentioned when the timing marks are all aligned the key way on the pump drive shaft should be at 11 o'clock but it still can be 1 revolution out of time.

JimB

So last night I was able to check the timing and it was off. I have the engine on 14 degrees (as close as I can tell, no pointer).

Problem now is the Hub that attaches to the injector pump is not wanting to move within the gear. It seems really tight. Also, do I just tighten down the hub nut all the way and keep spinning it until the mark in the timing window of the of the injector pump lines up?

Pump does not spin smoothly but "clicks" as it moves from position to position. I really hope I dont have to get a new pump or take the timing cover all the way off.

Thanks again for all the help offered.

The pump turns counter clock wise...Right? Should the pump spin freely or be rather hard to move?
Also if it does spin counter clock wise, how would I rotate it at all?

Mine Injector pump hub will not move within the gear.

Hi Charlie, the not spinning smoothly is normal.
To turn the hub with cap screws loose, put a socket on the drive shaft nut.

Also this could be your problem as 2400B is similar to 454.
Also I believe your 454 would have a Bosch BR pump so see post from archives from DieselTech:
EPVA distributor pumps had 3 versions, AR, BR, and CR. AR and BR had the delivery valve fittings at an angle while latest CR type had fittings that came out straight. Pumps will interchange but injection lines may need changed or old line bent as needed to fit. Also CR inlet and outlet line bolts are the same, while AR and BR use a pressurising valve in the return line. Bolts are the same size, don't get the wrong bolt at the inlet. May not start or will barely run if the pressurising bolt is placed at inlet banjo.

So the bolt that goes in the inlet fitting will allow Diesel fuel to flow freely. Turn bolt with head down and pour so Diesel fuel into opening at top and fuel should run out the holes in the bolt.

JimB

Ok, so I have it all put together with the timing window off on the injector pump but I am now having a problem spinning the pump around to set the timing.

The three bolts connecting the gear to injector coupler are loose/out but no matter how much I tighten/pry the injector shaft bolt the coupler and injector wont spin. The coupler seemed very tight when installed to the injector gear. I have stripped 3 nuts prying on the thing. (thank god I have not stripped the injector pump shaft) Just wanted to know if there are any tricks or if something else is out of whack.
I am stopping by the auto store today to get new bolts and washers and give it a whirl this afternoon.
I hate that I waited to make sure this was all square till the motor was in the tractor instead of when it was out and easy to get to. freaking loader is right in the way.

Update:
I keep stripping nuts on the injector pump shaft trying to line the timing mark up in the pump. The hub does not turn in the gear at all.

I am now thinking about having the hub turned a hundredth of an inch in order to free up so space between it and the gear. This would hopefully allow the hub to move and allow me to set the timing. Does anyone see a problem with doing this?

Thanks again.

The 454 with D-179 that I worked on you could
easily spin the hub with a socket on the hub nut.

JimB

IMHO you shouldn't need to machine it. It worked from the factory, it should work now.

Something is put together wrong. What? I dunno. I can't see it and probably wouldn't know what I was looking at if I could. But, I would strongly recommend taking it apart and checking it all over to see what is going wrong.

So I am just a little confused still...
I have put the engine at 14 degrees before TDC like the books say and the lined up the mark on the timing window in the pump but it still wont fire. I get white smoke when cranking and I have fuel coming out of the fuel lines from the pump to the injectors. I made sure the engine was on the compression stroke as the rockers were not under load. But still no fire.

I am taking the timing cover off soon and going to make sure everything is aligned correctly. (dropped the damn woodruff key when installing the injector pump so had to pull the cover and then did not have the correct gasket so tried to make one out cardboard and now leaks something awful) In the diagram above, if I line all the timing marks up will this put the engine at 14 degrees before TDC as it is suppose to be? Or will I need to put the pulley on and spin it back 14 degrees then line up the timing mark on the injector pump? Another problem is I dont have a timing tag on the timing cover so I am just going off what I have seen online with the timing tag coming out of the bolt hole on the idler pulley indent. (if that makes any sense at all)
Does the tractor running on ether indicate that the valve timing is correct?
Also, when bleeding the fuel system, I bleed the filter starting with the one closest to the tank and progress to the pump. After I have fuel coming out of the injector lines it should be free of air...right? I hope the injector pump is still working correctly as a new one is over $1,500.
Could my injectors be bad?
I am losing it and I need this old girl up and running really soon.
Thanks again and sorry for rambling.

(quoted from post at 11:10:29 06/04/14) IMHO you shouldn't need to machine it. It worked from the factory, it should work now.

Something is put together wrong. What? I dunno. I can't see it and probably wouldn't know what I was looking at if I could. But, I would strongly recommend taking it apart and checking it all over to see what is going wrong.

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