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Conversion of a Super A to 12 Volt.

D

djhammerd

Member
I just purchased (what I think is) a 1951 Farmall Super A that was upgraded with a newer C-123 engine (year unknown yet, but researching).

I thank the members of this forum for the help I've received in an effort to determine exactly what I have.

New challenge....

I am interested in upgrading the 6-volt system to a 12-volt system.

Can someone point me to a set of plans which include a specific materials list?

To support this, I am also looking for wiring diagrams. Since this is a hybrid tractor, I may need a wiring diagram for a Super A, AND a later tractor that the C-123 engine was standard on.

Thanks in advance.
 
I did a Super A this past summer. Used the common Delco 10si alternator like what you would find in a 1980 Chev pick up. Simple 3 wire hook up if you buy the 2 wire plug.
 
Im assumin you have a distributor ignition, your gonna have to get a 12 volt coil, 12 volt battery and either remove the generator and install an alternator or if your lookin for stock look take your gen to an auto electrical shop and have them put 12 v guts in it. The starter can handle 12v. oh ya and a new amp gauge wouldnt hurt.
 
a wire diagram for the super a will work. There is vertually no differance externally from the stock C-113 to the C-123 engine. I have found wire diagrams online. ya just need to know how your gonna wire it up.
 
the 123 engine doesent need any different wiring from the original. Being a purist there just isnt any reason to even go to 12v just make the system you have work. Starter should be refreshed as it probably needs it if its in need of repair 12v will just finish it off. Just got done with one that had been converted and starter was in bad shape on its last leg by the time you make the brackets ect you could have the present system working just fine.
 
If you get a one-wire alternator, there are only two things you need to do to wire it up on a Super A:

1. Remove the wires from the BAT terminal on the regulator, and attach it to the BAT terminal on the alternator. If there is a wire on the "L" terminal of the regulator, move it to the BAT terminal on the alternator too.
2. Swap the wires from one post of the ammeter to the other.

Like that, it will charge and show it correctly on the ammeter.
 
If I where you I would NEVER go with a 1 wire set up there trouble from the get go and cost twice as much as the one I told you about. You can buy a 3 wire at O'Reilly's for around $50 plus a $10 core and it will have a life time warranty on it to boot
 
Listen to Old on the installation, and ignore the ones telling you to leave it 6V. A tractor with 6V is a PIA.
 
I have 6-6volt tractors that do not give any problems, Super A, 2 C's, 300U, Super H, Super M. In particular any C113 or 123 tractors do not need 12 volt.
 
(quoted from post at 16:45:48 02/15/14) The starter can handle 12v. oh ya and a new amp gauge wouldnt hurt.
Click to expand...

Yes, "the starter can handle it", but you will be better off if you have your auto-electric shop change the field windings to 12 V also. My converted 240U would spin the starter too fast before engaging the drive and it was wearing on the starter ring. My local shop changed it to 12 V windings, and in addition to engaging better, the engine fires quicker, maybe due to less drag on the electrical system... not sure exactly why.
 
Here's a schematic I drew up for the petronix 12-volt electronic ignition and Delco single-wire 12-volt conversion. This is my set up, but I have since taken out the fusible link going from the alternator to the ammeter.

 
Thanks again for all the advice and direction...

We've still got about 10 inches of compacted snow here, so it's going to be a while before I get to do much with the tractor (no shop room.

In any case, I have a lot to digest. This is a great forum.

Thanks! :D
 
and how is 6v a PIA? I agree with cnks that little engine starts so easy on 6v. could maybe see it on a W9 with 335 cu.in. engine. all you are doing here is moving the problem from one place to another. and if it has a mag then that's all the more reason to leave it 6 VOLT. mag's are designed to start engines on a slow crank.so smoke on this for a while.
 
(quoted from post at 10:40:02 02/16/14) and how is 6v a PIA? I agree with cnks that little engine starts so easy on 6v. could maybe see it on a W9 with 335 cu.in. engine. all you are doing here is moving the problem from one place to another. and if it has a mag then that's all the more reason to leave it 6 VOLT. mag's are designed to start engines on a slow crank.so smoke on this for a while.
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You sound like you're mad that he wants to make the switch.

I would never recommend 6-volt to anyone.

The jobs that these tractors do is not obsolete, but their 6-volt systems are.
 
Yes the old 6 volt system worked just fine but now days it is hard to find chargers for 6 volts plus the cost of a battery being so high etc makes good sense to go with 12 volts and that way if need be you can swap batteries around from one to another.
 
Yes the old 6 volt system worked just fine but now days 6 volt batteries are harder to find and cost as much or more then a 12 volt one and the generator systems do not hold up as well as the newer alternator systems do etc. Now days just plan and simple easier to have 12 volts systems so as to only need 12 volt batteries so if you need to you can swap out a battery easy
 
I haven't had any problem finding chargers--most of them are 6 and 12. I keep all the tractors on Walmart $20 maintainers. Otherwise the battery on the tractor I want to move is dead. The tractor I usually had the most trouble with was a 12 volt M. In a way, 12 volts just last longer because it covers the maintenance not done on a 6 volt.
 
$20 maintainers what did you buy them 10 years ago. Lowest priced any charger I have seen now is not the $50 range. I own 4 or more chargers and NONE are 6 volt. I did have a couple that would do both but those have long since went AWOL on me. Plus with as many tractor as I have I have found it better to go 12 volts on all that way no problems with a battery and one like my BA I can run ona a lawn mower battery
 
The last one I bought was in Nov last year. Yes there were $50 ones there, along with the other places I have looked. The ones I have are 6 and 12 volt, they determine the voltage automatically. You don't have a Walmart within a reasonable range? I only have 2 chargers, the last one 3 or 4 years ago -- they are still available here far as I know.
 
Yes I have a China mart not to far but I only buy stuff there that I can not find some place else. When I found out that Wal-Mart of owned in part by China I stopped buy as much as I could from them. Son worked for them for awhile and he found out that Wal-Mart of not longer 100$ owned by the U.. so I do not buy from them but yes I did look at the chargers last time I was in there and NONE for under $40 or so then add tax you you have $50
 
Yes I have a China mart not to far but I only buy stuff there that I can not find some place else. When I found out that Wal-Mart of owned in part by China I stopped buy as much as I could from them. Son worked for them for awhile and he found out that Wal-Mart of not longer 100$ owned by the U.. so I do not buy from them but yes I did look at the chargers last time I was in there and NONE for under $40 or so then add tax you you have $50. Plus to buy a 6 volt battery it cost more then a 12 volt one
 
no, I am not mad. I just hate 12 volt conversions on a unit. they are seldom professional looking. and when I buy an old tractor I want it original. just because of a 12 volt battery vs 6 volt is no excuse or argument. I even hate the sound of 12 volts on 6 volt starter.
and... there is a lot more stuff obsolete than 6 volt starting systems, when it comes to restorations.
and ... original is worth the most money.
and ... 12 volt replacement has the unit devalued to real collectors.
and... if the unit is a molested tractor with all kind of junk on it then it don"t matter. have more juice and think about it. as I said there is no reasoning putting 12 volt conversion on small cid engine that spins over fast enough with 6 volts. magnetos are obsolete also but there is a pile of them on tractors also. carburetor"s are also obsolete.
 
Good for you but when I need to work I need tot tractor to work like I need it to so I'll stick with 12 volts and knowing I have a battery and a way to jump it safely if the need it there
 
(quoted from post at 10:20:29 02/17/14) no, I am not mad. I just hate 12 volt conversions on a unit. they are seldom professional looking. and when I buy an old tractor I want it original. just because of a 12 volt battery vs 6 volt is no excuse or argument. I even hate the sound of 12 volts on 6 volt starter.
and... there is a lot more stuff obsolete than 6 volt starting systems, when it comes to restorations.
and ... original is worth the most money.
and ... 12 volt replacement has the unit devalued to real collectors.
and... if the unit is a molested tractor with all kind of junk on it then it don"t matter. have more juice and think about it. as I said there is no reasoning putting 12 volt conversion on small cid engine that spins over fast enough with 6 volts. magnetos are obsolete also but there is a pile of them on tractors also. carburetor"s are also obsolete.
Click to expand...

Are you telling me there is a fuel injection kit out there? I want it.

I'm not rich, I don't collect tractors, I use them. Farmalls are still good chore tractors for the hobby farmer and small land owner.

12 volt rules! 6 volt drools! Lol
 
(quoted from post at 16:38:41 02/15/14) If I where you I would NEVER go with a 1 wire set up there trouble from the get go and cost twice as much as the one I told you about. You can buy a 3 wire at O'Reilly's for around $50 plus a $10 core and it will have a life time warranty on it to boot
Click to expand...

Dad bought a 1-wire alternator at Advance Auto for $40. It was less than I paid for their cheapest 3-wire alternator. So far so good.
 
You have been lucky then. Every 1 wire I have ever messed with has been a big pit fall type of thing. Dead batteries and not charging till you spin the engine up to max RPM etc Plus a 1 year warranty instead of a life time one
 
(quoted from post at 11:58:16 02/17/14) You have been lucky then. Every 1 wire I have ever messed with has been a big pit fall type of thing. Dead batteries and not charging till you spin the engine up to max RPM etc Plus a 1 year warranty instead of a life time one
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WRONG !

It self-excites at under 900 rpm. Wide-open-throttle for a super A is going to be around 1450 rpm.
 
Sorry the one and only 1 wire I have on 8N has to be revved up to max to get it tot start charging and it has been that way since new and the paper work ever said 2000RPM to excite with it so your the one who is wrong or they have more then one style of them. Sorry BTDT too many times and will never again use a 1 wire for any thing but maybe a small boat anchor
 
yes, you are very correct on the starter and ring gear. it is very hard on it.
but some people are blind and just think 12 alternator is the answer. that's why I said it just moves one problem to another one.
 
sooo, how you gonna start a tractor with no starter then? better not touch the hand crank, it turns too slow.
 
(quoted from post at 14:39:55 02/17/14) Sorry the one and only 1 wire I have on 8N has to be revved up to max to get it tot start charging and it has been that way since new and the paper work ever said 2000RPM to excite with it so your the one who is wrong or they have more then one style of them. Sorry BTDT too many times and will never again use a 1 wire for any thing but maybe a small boat anchor
Click to expand...

It just so happens I made a video when I installed the Delco that debunks your claim. I cranked it at a 1/4 throttle, see for yourself that the alternator self-excites and makes power. Pardon the squeaky belt, I had just filled the new radiator with coolant , some antifreeze got on the belt. I don't know how to embed, you'll have to cut and paste.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUa0q_XPgI8
 
Now now this has gone way to far and all your doing is nit picking for not good reason. By the way I do have a hand start tractor also but it is also the oldest on the place as in a 1935. Sorry been messing with tractor for decades and I'll keep doing it the way I do. At this point this has gotten to far gone and your just trying to make this a fight
 
Again bull manure. I know what I have and I know what the paper work said with it when I got it so give up butt head. As I said not ALL are made the same and your just lucky you have found ones that excite at lower RPMs then the ones I can find.
You just want to fight so go find a tree to fight with because this is the last you will see of me and your now on my do not answer list
 
I have 2 Cubs still 6v, no problems. But when my SA quit charging, I finally converted to a Hitachi alternator because I came to the conclusion that you can't buy a good regulator. Making the old electro-mechanical regulators is a lost art that hasn't been rediscovered in China. I spent more on regulators that didn't work out of the box than what the alternator cost.
 
DJhammered asked ?'s about putting 12 volts onto his tractor, not anybody's else's. Great if you like 6 volt, all the power to you. If you don't like 12 volt, great. How about, just post info that pertains to helping him out putting 12 volt onto his tractor? Its not about what you want on your own tractor.
 
DRANK, there's only ONE (several) issue(s) that I see here.

"Delco" (which no longer exists) never made/commonly sold a "one-wire" alternator in the size we are talking about here. ANY "one-wire" alternator in the 10SI or 12SI size you're gonna find is an aftermarket bastardization put together (possibly) with some used Delco parts... the rotor, case, and stator, with an aftermarket regulator.

NOT fair to sully Delco-Remy's past reputation with such a thing!
 
Delco-Remy did make a one wire regulator for the larger alternators that fits in the 10SI so it is a simple matter to build one using all Delco parts.

The one wire alternators that I have assembled have all fallen into the the rpm range of 1100 - 2600 to self energize. Generally the higher the amperage output the higher the speed need needed to self energize. I just try to match the lower rpm ones to tractors that have lower rpm engines to eliminate some of the kick in problems.
 
(quoted from post at 23:05:47 02/18/14) DRANK, there's only ONE (several) issue(s) that I see here.

"Delco" (which no longer exists) never made/commonly sold a "one-wire" alternator in the size we are talking about here. ANY "one-wire" alternator in the 10SI or 12SI size you're gonna find is an aftermarket bastardization put together (possibly) with some used Delco parts... the rotor, case, and stator, with an aftermarket regulator.

NOT fair to sully Delco-Remy's past reputation with such a thing!
Click to expand...

Everyone that I know calls it a Delco 10 si from hot rodders to tractor guys. Is it just a nickname then? If I say Delco 10 si everyone knows exactly what I'm talking about. Mine was new and it was designed to self-excite between 800-850 rpm. Who I got it from is on the up-and-up and I trust unconditionally with parts.

Update: I just looked through Yesterdays Tractor catalog and they reference to "Delco 10 si"
 
I left mine 6 volt when I rebuilt it. While starting is never an issue the two things I don"t like are the whimpy headlights and inability to use 12 volt accessories/devices with it.
 
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