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Live hydraulics and power steering

N

notjustair

Well-known Member
My power steering on my M has always had a separate pump. I have live hydraulics. I haven't ever considered hooking the steering up to live because I have a loader on it - if I remember right I thought the priority valve used lots of your fluid for the steering.

I wouldn't consider it but you know how those belt pumps can be. I need to have it throttled up a little to work it when stopped and it's not as helpful as I'd like with a bale on it.

Does anyone use their M for a loader tractor with the steering hooked in? How does it work? Will it still have the gumption to swing the hay rake on the remotes if I hook the steering in there?
 
I would adapt a power steering pump from a medium duty truck with better displacement for the steering and leave the priority valve out of the plans. The displacement of the live pump is not going to be happy with more things to provide pressure. Jim
 
Any ideas what would be better? This is the one that came with the Char-Lynn setup. I'd imagine it's worn and not up to its full pressure. The bolt on to the governor type housing is pretty straightforward so it would be nice to keep that.
 
Walking through a wrecking yard with medium trucks looking for a fit to the mount (or adaptable to the mount would be my suggestion. Many have a remote reservoir that allows a more tidy install. Jim
 
I also would not be in favor of using a priority flow divider valve unless you have way more flow than you need for your loader. You only need 2 to 2 1/2gpm for the steering, but when your engine is idled down, it doesn't leave much for the loader. If you already have the mounting brackets for a belt driven pump, I'd leave it that way and find a Saginaw or similar PS pump with it's own reservoir. Older (50s and 60s) GM trucks if you can find them had Saginaws. Cars did too, but cars that age are hard to find... either been crushed or restored, unless you go to Cuba.
 
Unless you're trying to purposely grow old sitting in the seat of the tractor, you will have the engine revved up some for lifting and lowering the loader anyway, so frankly, tapping a couple GPM off for the steering is no big whoop.


You've got the IH live pump, right?
 
This is a problem, either system was not overly strong, it was better but not great, being around these in SW Iowa at IH/CNH dealer for 47 years. The Char-Lynn PS was assist style with its own pump because the tractors factory hyd pump wasn't big enough to rob from to run add on PS. The worst problem that M systems were not live hydraulics besides low PSI & GPM. IH came out with a Behlen PS option that was ok but still robbed from the live Hyd on 300/450 thru a complicated valve priority flow system. SM/SMTA was another goofy set-up, it worked but not great.
IH didn't really get it right until 544/656/706up
 
(quoted from post at 07:05:38 10/08/13) Unless you're trying to purposely grow old sitting in the seat of the tractor, you will have the engine revved up some for lifting and lowering the loader anyway, so frankly, tapping a couple GPM off for the steering is no big whoop.


You've got the IH live pump, right?
Click to expand...

My problem with this is it works "in theory" with a perfect system. Let the system get some years or hours on it and it is not nearly as efficient as a when it was new and everything was "perfect". As long as the priority valve works right, the first 2 to 2 1/2 gpm will always go to the steering. I can tell you from experience with my 240U and Char-Lynn steering, that below about 1/3 to 1/2 throttle there is nothing left for the rest of the system to operate, or operate as it should. Now on my tractor, the loader has a crankshaft driven pump, so it's no problem, but the steering and 3 point run off the live pump. I loose my 3 point anywhere below about 11-1200 RPM, and the same could easily happen with the M w/live pump and PS and loader. Granted the M may have a bigger pump than my 240U, but the loader will still slow a lot and I think the engine would need to be revved to full throttle.
BTW, what is the capacity of the M live pump at full throttle, or 1450 rpm.
 
My grandpa had a trip bucket loader on his M with water pump driven power steering. Worked like a champ, don't remember the power steering suffering due to lower idle, besides as others have noted, you had to rev the hell out of the engine to lift the loader before dinner time anyways.
 
(quoted from post at 13:43:38 10/08/13) My grandpa had a trip bucket loader on his M with water pump driven power steering. Worked like a champ, don't remember the power steering suffering due to lower idle, besides as others have noted, you had to rev the hell out of the engine to lift the loader before dinner time anyways.
Click to expand...

Most belt driven PS pumps will still get you close to 2 gpm even at idle, if the pulley size is right... IMO, this is the only way to go. Dad had a JD 60 with a Char-Lynn and a GM (Saginaw) pump, looked just like the one I had in a '55 Olds @ one time. it worked great, at least as good the neighbor's 60 with factory PS. I've thought of moving the PFDV to my loader circuit, but I don't think the valve is big enough to handle the full flow of my loader pump.
 
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