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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

D358 to D310 injector pump swap

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Brian686

05-28-2013 10:42:07
64.19.15.234



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Hello all, I took a gamble and bought an injector pump from a guy on another forum. I should have probably posted and asked the experts here if this pump would work but did a little digging and thought that it would. Let me give you a little background info.

My tractor is a 79 686 IH with the D310. The original pump that had the throttle kill went out several years ago and it had to be replaced with a VA6 CR pump. Earlier this year while the block heater was plugged in, somehow it caught on fire and in doing so it ruined the head on the pump. Took the pump in and found it they would have to ship the head overseas and I would have a rebuilt pump in about 4 months.

SO, found a Bosch VA6 BR pump off of a D358 that I believe was in a IH 826 from the guy I mentioned earlier. I've got the pump on, had to bend the lines to go on at an angle and the tractor will idle pretty decent. But as soon as I start giving it throttle it goes to pot. Would the old D358 have a different timing advance? I have timed, and retimed, and retimed.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm about to call a mechanic that passes by our house on his way home but thought I would give this a shot first.

Thanks

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Brian686

05-30-2013 09:24:20
64.19.15.234



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 Re: D358 to D310 injector pump swap in reply to Brian686, 05-28-2013 10:42:07  
Okay, I've got everything timed up now with the bolt's swapped. When I first started it up again after I retimed, it still didn't seem like it wanted to rev all the way up, so I backed it down and slowly bumped up the throttle until I got up to PTO speed. I stepped out to scope things out and noticed the return line off the injectors was spraying out at one of the banjo fittings at one injector. I shut it down, tightened it up and fired it up again. Now the throttle response seems way different then it used to be. I'm just guessing it's due to the pump being turned up. I don't know if there was some blockage in a line when I first fired it up or if it was from sitting for 5 months. I took a video of the tach and the throttle lever because it doesn't seem normal. It's a little shaky and it's hard to tell exactly whats going on with the play in the lever. Hopefully I can get the youtube link attached.

If it is turned up more then I need, how hard is it to turn it down?

Thanks again for all the help! I would have never thought to swap or check those bolts.

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Dieseltech

05-28-2013 12:31:16
98.206.80.148



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 Re: D358 to D310 injector pump swap in reply to Brian686, 05-28-2013 10:42:07  
Need more info, the Bosch ten digit # of both pumps would be helpful. Example 0 460 306 xxx. The advance range of the specs I found was 5 to 8 degrees. Has the pump you have on now been used recently, or been setting unused? It may have transfer pump blades stuck causing no advance at all. It may need a clean and reseal to work again.



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Brian686

05-28-2013 12:43:30
64.19.15.234



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 Re: D358 to D310 injector pump swap in reply to Dieseltech, 05-28-2013 12:31:16  
I will try to get the # off the one that's mounted on it tonight. The old one ended in 176 but I know it wasn't the original and they had to "retrofit" it on and I don't know what all was involved with that.

The pump was posted up for sale the beginning of March so it sat for at least a couple of months but I was told it was recently rebuilt last winter.

This has been my first encounter with injector pumps and it's been a learning experience!

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DeltaRed

05-28-2013 12:20:02
97.118.25.134



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 Re: D358 to D310 injector pump swap in reply to Brian686, 05-28-2013 10:42:07  
I have a 826 pump on my 706.Bolted up just fine.Runs great,only it runs a little rich.Thats ok,my '7' is turboed....Are yuo sure you dont have a newer(American Bosch) pump from the newer American 312?



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Brian686

05-28-2013 12:34:03
64.19.15.234



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 Re: D358 to D310 injector pump swap in reply to DeltaRed, 05-28-2013 12:20:02  

I don't believe so. Let me see if I can add a picture. The guy I bought it from told me he had it turned up a little... The pump on the left is the one I just put on, the pump on the right is identical to what I pulled off but this one was a pump off a salvage engine that I bought cheap since these things are getting rare.

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Dieseltech

05-28-2013 12:41:59
98.206.80.148



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 Re: D358 to D310 injector pump swap in reply to Brian686, 05-28-2013 12:34:03  
Also make sure you have the return valve bolt at top in return line. Will fit in inlet and cause your trouble too. CR pumps don't use this valve bolt but AR and BR pumps do. Have seen the bolts get switched before as both are the same size.



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Brian686

05-28-2013 12:49:12
64.19.15.234



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 Re: D358 to D310 injector pump swap in reply to Dieseltech, 05-28-2013 12:41:59  
Is there an easy way to tell which bolt is which?



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Dieseltech

05-28-2013 12:55:41
98.206.80.148



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 Re: D358 to D310 injector pump swap in reply to Brian686, 05-28-2013 12:49:12  
Inlet bolt is open, return bolt has a ball pressed in top. The picture shows both pumps have the wrong bolt at inlet front fitting.



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Brian686

05-28-2013 13:24:06
64.19.15.234



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 Re: D358 to D310 injector pump swap in reply to Dieseltech, 05-28-2013 12:55:41  
Then I bet they are still switched! Would the wrong bolt cause it to restrict the amount of fuel going into the pump?



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Dieseltech

05-28-2013 13:38:35
199.16.223.2



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 Re: D358 to D310 injector pump swap in reply to Brian686, 05-28-2013 13:24:06  
Yes, it would. The BR pump for sure has wrong bolt at inlet, CR picture not so clear. CR used the same open bolt at both lines while AR and BR used the restricted bolt at return line only. Happens to some new VE model pumps too.



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Brian686

05-28-2013 14:00:14
64.19.15.234



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 Re: D358 to D310 injector pump swap in reply to Dieseltech, 05-28-2013 13:38:35  
Well I will be sure to double check those bolts tonight and let you know what I find out. I hope that's all it is. Thanks for everyone's input so far!



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Brian686

05-28-2013 17:03:05
70.195.65.110



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 Re: D358 to D310 injector pump swap in reply to Brian686, 05-28-2013 14:00:14  
The bolts were in the wrong spots. I swapped then around and talk about a world of difference! Now I wish I wouldn"t have tinkered so much with the timing yesterday. Book calls for 14 btdc and I"m at 18. I"m hoping that"s the reason why I couldn"t get it up to PTO speed. It got almost up to it but wouldn"t go any higher even though I gave it more throttle. It did blow the cloth covered injector return line off the metal stem that goes into the "T" though. I had to leave before I could re-time it.

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DeltaRed

05-28-2013 12:40:23
97.118.25.134



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 Re: D358 to D310 injector pump swap in reply to Brian686, 05-28-2013 12:34:03  
The pump on the left is what's on both my 706 and 826.The one on the right lookslike the newer 312 pump.I was once told the 312 pump will work on the 310/358.Just bend the lines to fit...I dont know if this is true or not.Steve



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Dieseltech

05-28-2013 12:49:22
98.206.80.148



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 Re: D358 to D310 injector pump swap in reply to DeltaRed, 05-28-2013 12:40:23  
312, 360 engines use American Bosch model 100 pump, injector lines all come out at the top. Same pump type as 400 series IH engines.



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