IH 300 Utility Starting Issue

Hi all. I have an IH 300 Utility (1956) that I have a strange issue with. It has never liked to start in the cold (40 and under). When I go out and try to start it, it will run for just a second and stall out. When I crank a second time, the top half of the carb gets frosty and gas starts dripping out of the bottom of the carb. I figured out this winter that if I run a hot air dryer on the carb for a few minutes, then blow some warm air into the air intake as I"m cranking it, it generally starts right up. Today I did exactly that and headed out to get my truck out of the mud (I"ve had a tough day). The tractor ran fine and normal all the way out to my truck. It was up to operating temperature by the time I got there. I chained it to my truck and started to lift the bucket and it stalled out. Now it won"t start again. I crank it and gas leaks out of the bottom of the carb. Blowing warm air on it does not good now. I checked my plugs and they don"t appear to be getting gas (not wet at all). Any ideas what would be wrong with it? All I can think is to take the carb apart and try to clean it, but I want to be sure I"ve tried all other options before I go down that road. I have a hard time finding parts for this thing and I don"t want to mess up the carb gaskets unless I"m sure it"s necessary. Thanks.

Couple of things to check so you head the right way. #1 check your spark and make sure it is a blue white spark that jumps a 1/4 inch gap or more. #2 check your air cleaner and make sure it is not full of water/dirt and maybe change its oil. #3 pull the carb drain plug and make sure you have a good steady flow of gas for a few minutes. Catch the gas to make sure it does not have water and or dirt in it. You after doing all those things try adjusting the main jet. Screw it in all the way then out say 4 full turns and if you have spark etc give it a try

Yeah everything old said they are touchy and cold natured. Dad kept distributor cap, condenser, points and plugs on hand for the one at the farm. Also how stale is the gas in it. If it is ethonal blended over 90 days old I could see a 300 running bad real easy

The 300U I have here has always been and easy start tractor as long as the spark is good and the other stuff I have said.

Acts like the ignition coil is weak and needs to be replaced. I have a 300U I just purchased and noticed condensation forming on the manifold about the carb before it warmed up. You may also have a icing problem and that why the blow dryer helped.

I would suggest installing a Pertronix Igniter ignition replacement system for about $90.00. Very easy to do and now you do not have to worry about the points and condenser. This way the ignition system will give you a very good spark. Only thing additional is be sure your coil will produce a good ignition spark. Do not use anything other than a stock coil with this system. You can check the coil by taking the wire going from the coil to the points and very quickly touching it to ground and then removing it from the ground (opening and closing the circuit), just like the points would do. If you get at least a 1/2" spark out of the coil wire (being held with this gap from a good ground), then the coil should be fine. Boy does this help my 300 with starting in all types of weather.

Its an IH, choke the crap out of it.

Ours sure wasn't they used to but a block under the loader bucket when parking it in anticipation of pulling it to start. I remember distributor caps being problematic (this in the 70s) now if the spark was good like you said ran great but still cold natured to start. I agree all ih cold natured, choke and let them warm up.

Thanks for the pointers. I'll try the various things in this thread in easy to hard order and post back what I find. I appreciate the help....

Couple of things besides what others have said - I'd check to make sure the choke is closed when you pull the cable. As far as gas running out of the carb, I think all the old IH's will do that if you crank much and they don't start.I wouldn't worry about that one.

The 340 we have I have to choke it real good and play with the choke after it starts till warm then it runs good

OK, here's the update. Taking the info on this thread, I went out to check for spark. I pulled a plug and tried grounding it to the engine block and seen no spark. So then I took the wire that goes from the ignition coil to the distributor cap and pulled the end out of the cap and tried grounding that and getting a spark, but didn't get spark there either. So at this point I'm thinking the issue has to be the ignition coil itself, the generator, or the voltage regulator. Is this accurate? How can I narrow down the culprit? I'm an electrical idiot so I'm not sure the best way to test these parts...

I also cleaned out the air cleaner, pulled the plug in the carb and let gas run through, and messed with the choke and the main metering needle and they seem OK as far as I can tell.

Another side note. Why would stalling the tractor out cause this to all the sudden happen? It was running fine until I stalled it trying to pull my truck out of the mud. Then this...

Ben, I also have a 300 utility. About twice a year it will just stop like you turned the switch off. If I clean the points with some contact cleaner, it will start right up and run good for another 6 months or so. At one time I would replace the points when this happened but found out that just cleaning the points would be just as good. I also have a 350 & 450 gas and these don't do that. Only difference is the 300 is still an original 6-volt tractor. You get no warning when this will happen as it starts and runs real good the rest of the time. Anybody else know why this might be happening? Al

I think that when they quit like you describe, it is a fuel problem. The reason I think that is when the carb. runs dry, for some reason the float sticks and causes gas to drain out. My opinion based on my M. Ocaasionally like a dumb butt, I will forget to turn the gas on and it will quit. Then it leaks gas like yours. Hope this helps. Ellis

I too have a 300 utility, 6 volt system,7300 hrs+. The wiring is origional (cracked insulation, etc). It will frost the carb too in cool damp weather and runs better after the frost melts. But it always starts right up to 10 above. I change the points and plugs about every 2-300 hrs. It is cold natured and likes the choke, but it will run smooth and pull right out of the barn if I partially choke it. So first of all I wonder if your choke closes fully when you pull the cable out and opens fully when you push the cable in. You can observe this externally with the lever on side of carb, or remove the intake hose.
Secondly take a test light (or volt meter) and measure voltage at battery side of coil with key on. If no voltage you have lost power (voltage) from key, if ok check distributer side of coil at the points inside the cap; open and close points with a screwdriver, without grounding out the points, hold the coil wire 1/4" from block and if all is well it will spark when you work the points with screwdriver and your test light on the points go off and on. You can have a bad coil. You can have a bad condensor which will ground out the points. Your points can be out of adjustment. They set at .023 on high part of the lobe. The points rubbing block has to be on the flat part of distributer lobe to make it spark with screwdriver. You also can have a bad rotor button which won"t let the spark go thru to each terminal inside the cap. It is not generator or voltage regulator related.
As far as why = coincedence?
I hope this helps ; I don"t type well and understand things way better than I explain them.
Good luck, MARK.
p.s. I have had bad points before, brand new.And bad condensor.

Along with our 300 utility, we had a 340 utility when I was a kid. The 300 always cranked slow and was cold natured,but always started. The 340 cranked well and almost never needed to choked, and ran perfect imediately. My uncle and dad tried another carb on it; still did not need to be choked to start.
Mark

I guess I should have mentioned up front, this tractor is a 12-volt, not a 6-volt. I"m not sure if that makes a difference in any of the replies so far or not.

Thanks Mark. I want to make sure I'm clear on the testing procedure for the ignition coil.

So on the battery side of the coil, I just turn on the key and use my test light to touch the wire coming to the ignition coil (touch the black test lead to the block, red test lead to the connection on the coil). If it's on, I have power. Is it possible that I have power, but not enough? do you know what the volt meter should read here (or a rough range)?

For the distributor side of the coil, I'm not clear on how you are saying to test this. Can I just take my tester and again touch the black lead to the ground, then quickly touch the little arm in the distributor cap that spins and makes contact with each point? If I get a reading when I do that, that means power is coming through the cap and getting to the points right? I just cont confused when you were describing jumping the points with a screwdriver. I'm not sure what you mean. Can you try and clarify?

Thanks a lot for the help.

Ben, since you have a 12 volt system you may have a resister inline from key to coil, if the coil is origional 6 volt,if it is 12 volt no resister. the resister could be open (voltage in none out). What I meant about the points was you can make the coil spark by opening and closing the points with a screwdriver- key on. The points open and close and you should see a spark when you open and close points or while cranking engine with cap off, in neutral. You have to have a 12 volt test light to check voltage from keyswitch to coil. you could check voltage to points if they are open. A bad condensor can short points to ground = no spark. You cannot check the rotor button (which you called little arm that rotates inside cap for voltage : you would need to check it for continuity with an ohmmeter. Let me know if any of this helps or if you get it running.
MARK

Ben,there is a thread above : no spark at points; read John T"s link to troubleshooting ignition; it"s very good and should help you.Mark

(quoted from post at 14:41:52 03/07/13) Ben,there is a thread above : no spark at points; read John T"s link to troubleshooting ignition; it"s very good and should help you.Mark

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OK, I wanted to give an update on this. You have all been very helpful and I really appreciate the advice. I had my neighbor come over and help me last night. He's way better mechanically than I am, plus I had a hard time trying to check spark when turning the key myself. So he came over and we started with spark. Was getting 12V to the coil. Points looked good. Rotor button looked fine. Turns out I was getting spark out of the plug. Either I wasn't getting a good ground or couldn't see what I was doing when I tried it myself.

So, we verified that the choke was opening up when I pulled out the knob. Cranked on it and still got nothing. So we took off the air intake hose and blew a bunch of starting fluid into it and cranked the crap out of it and it eventually started. I let it run for a couple hours and moved the throttle around. I added some liquid heat to the gas so I wanted to make sure that was all run through the system. I pulled it into the barn and let it set over night. This morning I went out and tried it and it fired right up. It's like 50 degrees today, so it's not a good test of if the cold is part of the problem. But, I have no idea what happened last weekend. Maybe something was stuck in the carb and I just happened to run out of gas when I tried to pull my truck by coincidence? I don't know. I know that it appears to be fuel related so I'm going to get a carb kit and will go through the carb either this summer, or sooner if it craps out again on me. So, long story short, my theory for the moment is that something was stuck in the carb and got blown out of there once we got it running using starting fluid. If anyone else has another theory I'd love to hear it.

Thanks again for the help.