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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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656 Thoughts

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IAtractorKid

01-26-2013 21:51:59
184.97.61.244



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Hey guys! Looking at trading for this 656 and were curious to your thoughts on it. See anything I should be concerned with? New seat and tire chains. Everything but the tach works, including the T/A. Good tires...although it has M style front hubs and not pressed steel. Thats not correct is it? Loader included...Westendorf WL30.

Just curious as I have no experience with a 656 so its all new to me. Good loader tractors for general work around the house and plowing snow? This be like the 460/560 that requires 93 octane? Thanks!!!

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pete 23

01-28-2013 07:43:37
74.32.229.189



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to IAtractorKid, 01-26-2013 21:51:59  
The normal repairs on a loader tractor will be hydraulic pumps, radiators, brakes, shifting mechanism, clutch, pto drive etc. I would rather put a ta in a 706 than a 656. The pto drive from clutch is stradle mounted on tapered roller bearings so you cannot pull the shaft out with out getting bottom gear out of the way. To pull the rear cover to get into transmission is a real pain. I just prefer the larger frame tractors for working on. It's what I have done for a living, not my own tractors. Cost of parts, a toss up between them on normal wear items.

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mkirsch

01-28-2013 05:07:40
64.80.110.74



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to IAtractorKid, 01-26-2013 21:51:59  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

You sure you're thinking of the right tractors?

656 is a small frame tractor based on the 460 with mechanical TA, mechanical brakes, 5-speed transmisison, etc..

756 is the large frame tractor based on the 706/806 with hydraulic TA, hydraulic brakes, 8-speed transmission...

About the only place where repairs would cost the same is the engine. Everything else should be less expensive on the 656.

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tomstractorsandtoys1

01-27-2013 22:26:18
64.136.27.163



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to IAtractorKid, 01-26-2013 21:51:59  
I am 100% a Deere fan,that being said every IH owner around me has had or does have a 656.They were a very good tractor with many still in daily use on loaders and tmr mixers.The three farms next to me each have one,all are gas.The one is well taken care of the other two are beat to death and keep going.



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rankrank1

01-27-2013 19:49:41
198.228.228.152



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to IAtractorKid, 01-26-2013 21:51:59  
I was thinking more along the lines of adding a high output fan belt driven hydraulic pump. I would not want to tie up my PTO with a pump in case you wanted to run an implement off the PTO later. Running off the belt the hydraulics would be both fast and live.

As for the PS rob that system from the Super H before you sell it.

3-points come up for sale used all the time. I recently picked up one for $300 and simply love it.

Wide front? Well I disregarded that totally since the 656 had NF too so not really a deal breaker. And to only push snow... the narrow front is much more maneuverable anyway.

T/A not really sure how useful that is on a loader tractor. I always thought T/A's were mainly for plowing or heavy tillage. In other words Run in high 95% of the time hit a hard spot when plowing pull the lever back to get through the hard spot and then push lever forward to high once through the hard spot. I guess they technically do give you some slower speeds but they freewheel in low range too so not really meant to drive there much from a safety aspect when doodling around.....freewheeling will not happen with a plow in the ground behind yah so no worries on using T/A then.

I think I would rather have the 656 over the 400 though if you dead set on trading. But to only push some snow around every now and then; I think I would rather have your M and either $2000 to $2400 or so in my pocket (assumes you get $3k total from sale of both h's and then spend say $600 on hydraulics and $400 on a 3 point). If I read correctly earlier your m also has brand new tires all around as well so that's a good thing too.
Anyway good luck on whatever happens....any of them will certainly do the job.
This post was edited by rankrank1 at 20:01:08 01/27/13 2 times.

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IAtractorKid

01-28-2013 08:37:24
70.197.204.33



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to rankrank1, 01-27-2013 19:49:41  
Guy decided he wanted cash more than more tractors so this wont happen anyway. Thanks for all your thoughts.

Ive been over the idea of putting the loader on the M and I just cant justify it unless it turns out to be my only option. Putting $2000 into it to get live hydraulics, power steering, wide front and three-point just doesnt make sense. Especially with the fact that I still wont have live PTO or a T/A.

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rankrank1

01-27-2013 17:39:10
198.228.228.151



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to IAtractorKid, 01-26-2013 21:51:59  
Not to take this thread totally OT but I did some searching on this site on your older posts.... and viewed some of your photo adds on craigslist...

Anyway, I really like the looks of that Koyker loader you have. It looks a tad too big on that Super h, but looks like it would be an ideal fit on your M.

Have you give any thought to transferring the loader and the power steering from the Super h to the M? I would say transfer the live pump too, but sounds like that pump is slow, so maybe buy a better higher flow live pump and add that to the m. Then keep the m but still sell the super h and the all fuel h to help pay bills like one of your posts mentions.
The m would certainly be okay for plowing a driveway and would even use less fuel than that 656. The M is slightly shorter wheelbase being 4cyl over 656 being 6cyl so slightly more maneuverable too. M is much easier to work on if ever needed too. Some of the add-on 3 point hitches are pretty decent if you find a nice buy on one later (I put one on an h and love it). That said the $5250 price on the 656 seems pretty good too.

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IAtractorKid

01-27-2013 18:59:32
184.97.61.244



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to rankrank1, 01-27-2013 17:39:10  
Thanks for the input. My original plan was to put the loader on the M. However, adding live hydraulics to it wont be much better than those on the SH, about 12GPM. Soo my thought was to buy a nice, big PTO pump to run the loader faster. Even if I do that, I still dont have power steering, live hydraulics, 3pt, wide front or a T/A which is handy on a loader tractor.

Ive found a nice 400 locally with power steering, wide front, 3pt, working T/A, live pto and hydraulics but it will take my H, M and $1000 to get. Although thats also a good deal, I dont have $1000 to spend on a tractor right now so Im left with trading for what I can get or just waiting. Either way works as I dont need the tractor asap.

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Kirk Affeldt

01-27-2013 14:56:57
74.47.91.165



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to IAtractorKid, 01-26-2013 21:51:59  
You have a lot of good thoughts already shared about this tractor and loader. My dad and I have a NF gas 656 with a Farmhand loader on it. The two are matched very well. If your loader work is cleaning up the yard after a snow fall, picking chestnuts off the top of the chestnut tree, or any other light duty tasks you will be very satisfied with the tractor and loader. We used to clean up the cow yard every year but since dad's retirement, our 656 is leading a easy life. I have driven NF tractors for years and have never had any incidences because I was always aware of my situations and never got into anything I shouldn't. I would hope this loader could be put on in a way as to give you room to get off and on the tractor easier.

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Weldon K

01-27-2013 13:43:50
98.16.29.121



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to IAtractorKid, 01-26-2013 21:51:59  
Need more room to get on /off the tractor? Spread the rear wheels farther apart by two methods. Attach the rims to the cast wheel centers using the mounting beads, on each rim, that are toward the center of tractor. Or slide the cast wheel center outward on the axle. Wider wheel spacing also makes it safer . Fill the rear tires with fluid if not already filled.



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ss55

01-27-2013 13:31:05
173.31.19.80



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to IAtractorKid, 01-26-2013 21:51:59  
The tractor and loader both look to be in good condition, but they are not a great match. I'm not putting down the tractor or the loader, just noting things to be aware of.

Were those loader brackets originally intended to mount it on a bigger longer tractor, like a 706 or 856? The right hand bracket by the clutch is held on by one bolt and the left hand bracket has two bolts. It looks like a good heavy duty loader, but it is too far back on that 656. It will be very tough to get on and off the tractor. When you test drive it take the time to climbing on and off it at least 6 or 10 times or more and don't be shy about complaining about it if it bothers you. The seller is already very aware of it and knows that it hurts the selling price.

It looks like there is a HeatHouser/weather break mounting bracket on the tractor's cowl. One would be great for keeping warm while pushing snow, but with that loader you would almost have to leave the left hand door off to be able to get on and off the tractor. You will also have to leave the right hand window open to reach the loader joystick.

How wide is the loader bucket? Can you move the rear tires and fenders out further to get more room to get on and off the tractor? That would also increase the tractor's stability a little.

The tires are older and cracking, but are still usable with the chains. Check that the rear tire have fluid in them, you'll need it with that loader. Check the front pedestal over well. 7.50 wide front tires would be nicer with that heavy duty loader. A narrow front end is OK on a loader tractor, but it will reduce your trade-in value by $500 to $750 less than a WF. Is that the battery on the platform, that will get old very fast.

The loader is probably about about as old as the tractor, it's not a quick-tach loader, Westendorf had some great quick-tach loaders by 1970. With a quick-tach loader that would become a very handy tractor. I'd value the loader at its trade-in value (less than $500?) and negotiate as if you intend to replace the loader in the near future. After you climb on and off that unit for a few months you may want to do that anyway.

Can you get copy of a loader's manual or mounting instructions from Westendorf to see what the original mounting brackets for a 656 looked like? If that loader can be moved forward on the tractor by 6 to 18 inches it would be a much handier combination. You can put an extension on the joystick handle and extend the brakets going back to the rear axle. A welding shop might be able to move the loader for a few hundred dollars. Please confirm that before negotiating on the tractor.

Both the tractor and loader look to be in good condition, they just don't work well together. Good luck and don't pay too much for that combination as it is. What is the asking price?

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IAtractorKid

01-27-2013 15:29:15
216.81.154.234



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to ss55, 01-27-2013 13:31:05  
As far as I know the loader brackets are universal, because they look identical to a friend of mines that has a WL30 mounted on a 400. If things line up, I would definately look into moving the loader forward 8-12" probably.

Bucket is 7' so probably not much wiggle room on tread width of rear tires. Rear tires should last me years as is but I have a new set in the shed if need be. Not sure if they have fluid or not, its on my list to check. I have about 10 sets of rear wheel weights at the farm...assuming it uses the same weights as an H or M???

This tractor would be used for minor dirt work around my house and plowing snow, I have about a 150yd driveway. Really a little big for what I need but its what I have found with a deal I think would be fair. He is asking $5250 and the 3pt adapters are included but Im hoping to trade straight across for my H, M and SH.

Loading is not on a joystick, thats the shifter you see...not sure why its bent back. The battery on the platform is where it should be from what I have seen on other 656s.

NF does not bother me and I am comfortable with it on a loader tractor although if things work out, I would be on the lookout for a nice WFE and some flotation tires. Will keep you guys posted. Thanks for the input!

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IAtractorKid

01-27-2013 17:00:55
216.81.154.234



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to IAtractorKid, 01-27-2013 15:29:15  
Along with wanting to know if wheel weights from an H or M will fit the 656, what wide front end would I look for? Will something off an M, SM, 400, 450, 460, 560 or 706 fit? Probably end up with an aftermarket.



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cleddy

01-27-2013 14:23:22
174.74.54.243



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to ss55, 01-27-2013 13:31:05  
As mentioned in a previous post I just put this loader on a tractor and they are quick-tach. You can adjust them forward (12-15"in front of wheel in my case)by telescoping the tubes that go to the axle horns. To mount you drive into it until the hooks enter the horns mounted to the axles with big bolts-Hook the hydralic up and lift the mid section until it goes in the center brackets(2-3/4 bolts on each side) and pin them and then hook the front braces up to brackets in front(4 bolts each). After brackets are mounted dis-mounting is 2 front hooks and 2- 1" pins in center and hydralic hoses and back out. I agree it may not be a good match since loader is so heavy (1500-1800lbs) but I'm sure price is way lower than new.($8000.00/New Westendorf loader only)
I have set up instructions and an advertizement featuring this loader on a 560 IH tractor.
cleddy

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todd hamilton

01-27-2013 12:38:21
174.252.147.105



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to IAtractorKid, 01-26-2013 21:51:59  
Prolly one of the best all purpose tractor ih ever built. This particular one being a loader tractor I would negotiate a six month warranty on the clutch, ta, and shifter. Allen is correct the later farmalls are top heavy be careful with the narrow front



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pete 23

01-27-2013 11:17:10
74.32.229.189



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to IAtractorKid, 01-26-2013 21:51:59  
Tough to get on for sure as they are designed to get on from left side. I would start it up cold, drive it around so you get the idea of how they run, shift and speed and noise of hydraulics on loader. I much prefer the larger tractors to work on and repairs cost the same for a 756 gas as a 656 gas. They are very well accepted around here by owners, mechanics, not so much.



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Rick in Iowa

01-27-2013 11:15:31
173.215.88.221



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to IAtractorKid, 01-26-2013 21:51:59  
its the operator not the front end that causes upset.



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SD Pete

01-27-2013 10:40:26
24.230.34.249



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to IAtractorKid, 01-26-2013 21:51:59  
Looks good to me. If the tractor is at a dealer have him put the right pedestal on it.



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Dave OBrien

01-27-2013 09:13:57
71.51.117.95



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to IAtractorKid, 01-26-2013 21:51:59  
My experiences with a 656 tell me that the things to watch out for are being light on the nose. The loader takes care of that problem. The narrow front is something to watch out for because you can't see the direction that the wheels are turned and there is very little feedback through the steering wheel. The shift linkages aren't always the smoothest either. Still, All in all a good machine. There are a lot of them out there.

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Janicholson

01-27-2013 08:30:43
74.60.94.18



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to IAtractorKid, 01-26-2013 21:51:59  
It looks like it will clean up very well. They work hard. If you keep loads low when transporting (necessary with wide or narrow), the narrow front is just fine. If a wide front tractor tips far enough to hit the stops you are making incorrect decisions as to where you are driving. THe pivot point on a wide front is the axle pin in the middle of the bolster. The pivot point of a narrow is the tire to ground on the side where the tipping force is applied. Not much different. If the price is reasonable buy it. Jim

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steve_in_mo

01-27-2013 08:17:24
205.240.41.69



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to IAtractorKid, 01-26-2013 21:51:59  
It looks like it has had a three-point adapter put on it but all that's left is the mount for the top link. The adapter kit would let you use cheaper and more widely available rear-mount equipment.



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rankrank1

01-27-2013 07:11:12
198.228.228.148



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to IAtractorKid, 01-26-2013 21:51:59  
As others have pointed out, that loader design does make it appear to be hard to get on and off the tractor. That said it does look like there might be just enough room to cut out that angled gusset bracket near the rear tire that runs to the main vertical post. Then farmer...engineer a set of heavey duty steps to replace the gusset bracket strength purpose as well as to aide in getting on and off. Easy to do if you can weld some. Otherwise I believe Westendorf loader brand considered good in their day and loader does appear to have single lever joystick control which is upgrade over 2 lever control.

Tractor looks very straight for age and 656 usually highly thought of. Diesel more so than gas (but that is almost always the case). Some love a gas for loader work as they always start in cold without hassle.
Only minus I see, is the narrow front end. I actually like them, but many people are afraid of them so price will always be less if you go to sell it. NF will literally turn like a zero turn mower so very maneuverable, but caution will need to be followed with a loader on a NF. As long as price is fair then I would not be afraid of it, but I would not want to pay premium top dollar price due to the NF.
This post was edited by rankrank1 at 07:13:35 01/27/13 2 times.

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cleddy

01-27-2013 09:00:27
174.74.54.243



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to rankrank1, 01-27-2013 07:11:12  

Those loaders are made fully adjustable. The tower has telescoping set-screw pipes going back to the rear axle and by moving the mid & front brackets to different holes on the frame there can be more room in front of the rear tire. They are constructed so strong you would never break it. I put my wide front back on my tractor which messes up the drive in-mount feature but all my life we used a F10 farmhand loader on a WD Allis with narrow front and only tipped it over twice(once Dad Never knew about)and only when we should of knew better.cleddy

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cleddy

01-27-2013 06:22:04
174.74.54.243



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to IAtractorKid, 01-26-2013 21:51:59  
How do you get on these trctors? I just put this loader(WS-30) on a MM tractor and after you leave enough room in front of the tire to get on it is out there a little and almost to much loader for the tractor. IH Tractors must be "get on from the back" I have info for the loader which is 1970's vintage.cleddy



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kennell

01-27-2013 06:20:13
142.68.124.175



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to IAtractorKid, 01-26-2013 21:51:59  
Looks like a nice tractor. Everyone loves their 656's around here. Is it wise to buy a loader tractor with a narrow front end? The loader seems to make it hard to get on and off the tractor from the pics.Keep us informed . Kent



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nebraska cowman

01-27-2013 04:53:04
66.252.116.102



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to IAtractorKid, 01-26-2013 21:51:59  
That would be a good loader tractor if it meets your need. Gas, fast hitch, narrow front, The loader is moot. Compare prices on Tractor House



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Allan In NE

01-27-2013 02:35:16
148.66.88.254



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to IAtractorKid, 01-26-2013 21:51:59  
No,

You don't need to use hi octane fuel. The reverse is slow; way, way slow.

That front end is a widow maker.

Other than that they are a great little tractor, albeit a bit thirsty.

Allan



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a_lead

01-27-2013 12:03:37
69.138.72.134



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 Re: 656 Thoughts in reply to Allan In NE, 01-27-2013 02:35:16  
rankrank1: I think what you think is the joy stick is the shifter. I wonder what the goal was in bending it back like that.

I agree with cleddy. I would want to move it forward on the tractor. If some one was using it as they daily loader, what a witch it is to get off and on as the loader post are right in the spot where you climb off and on.

I wonder what has rubbed the paint off of the front cowling, perhaps the loader or one of the hoses?

It had a windbreaker on it at one time; the bracket is still on it right in front of the throttle on the rear area on the hood (upside down horse shoe looking black part).

But it doesn't look bad for a tractor that is 40 to 45 years old.

Edward

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