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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

Can't imagine

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Notjustair

01-21-2013 19:01:15
174.253.129.63



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My M is my loader tractor. Has to start in all temps. Today it was just above the single digits and she rolled over pretty slow even though it is 12 volt. It isn't the coldest she has had to start in by a long shot, but any colder and I would plug it in.

Got me to thinking - has anyone had to hand crank their M under those conditions? I can't even imagine what it would be like. I have cranked smaller motors, but the M is a whopper. I guess if I had to I would probably belt it up. Makes me understand why the old timers heated water on the stove to pour in them.

So, anyone out there hand crank an M in cold weather (and get it to start)?

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Jim CIn.

01-23-2013 18:59:07
69.89.188.190



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to Notjustair, 01-21-2013 19:01:15  
I have to hand crank my W-30 when I need it. Being 72, I don't need it as often!



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Rdandersom

01-23-2013 15:21:25
204.237.46.249



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to Notjustair, 01-21-2013 19:01:15  
Brings back memories.In "85 I had to start a Massey Harris 44 Special every morning to spread the manure from 60 cows.I got so that I would crank it over with the ignition off a few turns then it would usually start on the first flip after that.Doing it that way I had whatever power the battery had for spark only.It was surprisingly easy to crank over but of coarse I was a bit younger.



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Jim Becker

01-23-2013 07:03:05
173.74.120.222



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to Notjustair, 01-21-2013 19:01:15  
Here's my version of how to crank start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNiS86_H-RA



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Tom Fleming

01-23-2013 03:02:45
67.20.233.75



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to Notjustair, 01-21-2013 19:01:15  
Ok, I have nightmares every time I watch this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1jaO0H7JVE

absolutely how NOT to start a tractor......



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Tom Fleming

01-23-2013 02:39:22
67.20.233.75



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to Notjustair, 01-21-2013 19:01:15  
Ok guys, here's how a tractor should start:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bX6wYJBHNc

Notice how he does it......

Ok, for those of you with a battery buzz box:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=kOuZ9qkuLJg&NR=1
This post was edited by Tom Fleming at 02:41:15 01/23/13.

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Dean Olson

01-22-2013 19:37:31
166.137.156.175



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to Notjustair, 01-21-2013 19:01:15  
Growing up in NE Iowa we kept the tractor,M,in the heated garage. Much to Moms dismay. It had to start so we could plow the drive. Once the drive was cleared I had to clean off Moms car. In answer to your question we went to great lengths NOT to have to hand crank that tractor.

Fast forward 30 years and I hand cranked, just for fun, my 53 Farmall super H with oversized higher compression pistons.

I got it started but remembered why hand cranks went obsolete.

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Tom Fleming

01-22-2013 11:37:18
174.231.7.48



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to Notjustair, 01-21-2013 19:01:15  
Ok, starting a properly tuned Farmall 4 cylinder engine should take 1/4 revolution.

A quick up pull on the crank, and it should start, or at least fire.

Proper cold starting procedure as taught to me over 40 years ago by an old timer even at that time:

1.). With the mag grounded, set throttle to 1/3, full choke. Turn engine over slowly, 2-3 full revolutions.

2.) next, open choke by about 1/4. Set mag advance 1/3. Leave throttle at 1/3. Set impulse if manual type.

3.) next, with a cupped hand, and with the crank at the 6:00 position, pull upward with a short, quick pull. Repeat if necessary. Usually starts cold on the 2nd or 3rd pull on the crank.

If you see anyone cranking on a hand crank like they are spinning a propeller, they do NOT know how to start an engine.

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DoubleR

01-22-2013 11:26:56
198.105.230.174



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to Notjustair, 01-21-2013 19:01:15  
I'm still dealing with a torn rotor cuff from 15 months ago trying to hand crank my super C in 60 degree weather. I can't even imagine hand cranking an M in this weather. I'm glad my loader tractor has a preheater, it started today, it was 5 below.



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teddy52food

01-22-2013 17:47:50
184.94.175.179



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to DoubleR, 01-22-2013 11:26:56  
If you are hurting yourself, by hand cranking a C, you are doing something wrong or the timing is not right.



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Nebraska Cowman

01-22-2013 10:42:18
166.182.3.59



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to Notjustair, 01-21-2013 19:01:15  
Not an M but I've hand started my WD Allis lots of times when it was below zero.



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mkirsch

01-22-2013 10:42:01
64.80.110.75



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to Notjustair, 01-21-2013 19:01:15  
tntleake, you are making it very difficult to be civil... LOL



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tntleake

01-22-2013 08:14:43
24.255.1.235



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to Notjustair, 01-21-2013 19:01:15  
I hand started my 200 yesterday. It spun really easy seeingd how it was 76. I did skin my knee up climbing onto the tractor as I was wearing shorts and a shirt. We had a cold snap last week with lows overnight in the mid 20's and high near 50
Sorry guys, just had to poke ya a little. In a Few months and it will be to dang hot to mess with the tractors
I do love AZ winters!



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Brownie 450

01-22-2013 06:40:56
66.43.241.198



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to Notjustair, 01-21-2013 19:01:15  
Neighbor always said to bring the battery & the air cleaner cup in the house at night.
When the MTA was 6-volt, I used to crank it in cold weather. It had [still does] the #31 loader on it.
You could only get an upward pull on the crank with the loader frame so close. Used to start on the first pull, though.



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William Eccles - Jardine

01-22-2013 06:07:45
76.65.3.50



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to Notjustair, 01-21-2013 19:01:15  
My father added a battery heater pad to the bottom of the battery box. Warming up the battery even when it was a poor battery; (he found out through research) He always said that a cold engine would nearly always start when the battery was warmed // Where a warmed engine with a cold battery would most likely not start. ( Proved it many a time)
WE discovered this with poignancy when Dad bought a B275D in 61 or 62; The first winter it wouldn't start no matter how we long we held the glow plugs on // we had to use the BN , put a twist in the belt and pup it / then it started / later we discovered that some brilliant individual had put a battery with an oversized top and small body/ no wonder it wouldn't start.

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mkirsch

01-22-2013 05:53:38
64.80.110.74



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to Notjustair, 01-21-2013 19:01:15  
Dad always put SAE 10 weight oil in any tractor he needed to run in the winter. The gassers would always start up with no outside assistance, but the diesels like being plugged in for a couple hours.

We've got electric in all the buildings, and I've introduced him to battery maintainers, so it's even better now.



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John M

01-22-2013 05:41:32
68.115.194.228



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to Notjustair, 01-21-2013 19:01:15  
Done it many times. At the time our M had a mag on it. I think building a fire under any engine is just plain out and out stupid, but I suppose it would be the tractors/trucks fault if it blew up though! If it scares you, plug it it in.



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jimb2

01-22-2013 14:58:29
99.241.76.141



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to John M, 01-22-2013 05:41:32  
Hi John,
back in the mid 1950s when the experts were predicting the next ice age was coming, we had an IH SC and a JD 420U. We would leave the JD in our woodlot that was 7 miles from the farm and no electricity for 3 miles. The JD would start good to about -30F but when it got to -35F the only way to start it was to build a fire under the oil pan. Yes we used 10W oil. Dad had an old hub cap off a 49 Chev that he would half fill with chain saw gas, place it in the snow under the oil pan of the JD and toss a match in it. When the gas was all burned then the JD would start but shifting gears was another story. You had to leave it the gear the night before that you were going to use the next day. When we traded the JD in 1969 for an IH 434 the IH Dealer asked what caused the black marks on the oil pan.
Back on the farm with the SC when it was really cold Dad would never try to start it with the starter, he would leave the ignition off, full choke, part throttle, give it a couple rev with the crank, then turn on ignition, and 1 up pull on crank with hand cupped it would start. He taught me how to safely crank a tractor. That same winter a neighbour wasn't so lucky starting his Case as it kicked back and broke his arm.

JimB

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Glenn F.

01-22-2013 05:28:29
166.181.3.135



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to Notjustair, 01-21-2013 19:01:15  
We hand cranked our magneto equipped DC CASE for decades. 6 volt system just was not adequate in January in NE Wisconsin. Properly tuned gas engines start pretty readily.

Glenn F.



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badger bob

01-22-2013 04:43:31
74.36.198.34



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to Notjustair, 01-21-2013 19:01:15  
Old. i was snowmobiling in wis back in 96 and the morning that we were to leve it was -41 with no wind. had to bild a fire under the 88 ford just to git it to turn over. and in about 20 min it cranked over like it was 70. some times you got to do what you got to do. Bob



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Tom Fleming

01-22-2013 02:57:19
67.20.233.75



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to Notjustair, 01-21-2013 19:01:15  
If you have the right weight oil in it, believe it or not, it will start easier hand cranking it in really cold weather. Battery ignition especially. reason is, the coil is nothing but a "step up" transformer. When you crank a starter over, the voltage drop is dramatic. Lower the voltage into a coil, the lower the output is. Spark is not as hot. That is why the put the starting "by-pass" circuit on some cars. It is also why you should take the ignition connection from the battery side of the solonoid (if you have one).

so, if you hand crank, there is no voltage drop. This is one of the reasons I like magnetos. They don't care WHAT voltage the battery is at. Magneto ignition and battery starter, great combination.

Cranking an M or SM at 10 degrees is NOT a fun task even with SAE 10 in it. If you ignition is clean and right, the carb is right, and the battery connections are clean with good contact, you should not have a problem.

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Ron-MO

01-21-2013 20:38:08
174.131.236.58



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to Notjustair, 01-21-2013 19:01:15  
One trick I remember Dad doing was to remove the battery (temps in single digits or less), and leave in the house overnight (sometimes even on a charger as well). Usually when the battery was warm and fully charged there was not a problem cranking right over, even if the engine was subzero cold. An older battery coupled with cold temps and a battery will not have near the cold cranking amps to roll a cold engine enough to fire as well as ruducing output to the coil/plugs. Pulling the battery was cheap insurance on cold mornings, especially when no power close to the vehicle or tractor (which was our case).

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dhermesc

01-22-2013 05:30:50
24.248.193.103



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to Ron-MO, 01-21-2013 20:38:08  
We used to put the battery charger on 2V over night to keep the battery warm so the tractor would start in the morning. Our loader tractor was a diesel 560 - on really cold mornings my dad refused to start it saying it was too hard on the engine. Instead my mom has a couple pictures of 4-5 teen and preteen boys on pitch forks loading the silage wagon from a trench silo before school. Did would then hook it to the GAS 656 to feed.

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old

01-21-2013 19:55:34
209.86.226.54



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to Notjustair, 01-21-2013 19:01:15  
My dad talked about taking the coals from a wood stove out and setting under a tractor so as to warm them up so you could start them or even build a fire under them to get them warm enough to run



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pete 23

01-21-2013 19:54:28
74.32.229.189



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to Notjustair, 01-21-2013 19:01:15  
I remember Dad getting up in the middle of the night and starting the car a couple of times so he could get it going in the morning to get us to school. All the neighbors would compare whose car started whose did not. Then he got a head bolt heater. Ahhhhhhhh.



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WOpp

01-21-2013 19:36:58
69.26.31.243



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to Notjustair, 01-21-2013 19:01:15  
We started M and W9 every day even when -45. Very simple thats why they make light oil. You put in 5W30 and it will start I don't care how cold it is. You can buy a lot od light oil for the price of one broken arm. Just keep crankin



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Retired Farmer

01-21-2013 19:28:45
64.12.116.73



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to Notjustair, 01-21-2013 19:01:15  
Why don't you just plug it in at night when you quit? Then it will be warm in the morning. That is what we do if it gets below 32.



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The tractor vet

01-21-2013 19:11:33
75.19.126.114



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to Notjustair, 01-21-2013 19:01:15  
Well many moons ago when it got really cold IF we needed a tractor this is how it was done. Go over to the neighbors and get him , he would go down to the barn and CRANK start his Farmall H then he would come over and he would drag the Farmall M up the drive to the top and get it turned around . Then he would get it moving down the hill as fast as he could speed shift his H up into Road gear and then and only then would we pop the clutch on the M in Forth . It would always start that way. Then we would drag out one of the 450 D 's with the M and drag it to the top of the hill and start all over . Back then we did not have a bunch of money for really good batterys and we got what we could afford . In warm weather everything started fine BUT when the temp stick got close to the big O the H was the only thing that would start on the ARMSTRONG starter.

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BoonvilleKid

01-21-2013 21:42:36
24.206.167.192



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to The tractor vet, 01-21-2013 19:11:33  
Nice story. Ahhh, the good old days!



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Dave_Id

01-22-2013 04:30:05
107.207.72.252



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 Re: Can't imagine in reply to BoonvilleKid, 01-21-2013 21:42:36  
I'm glad I moved to Texas...I remember those cold mornings in central Minnesota...not fun at all.



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