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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

Ground speed too fast on old tractors

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BoonvilleKid

11-04-2012 20:41:29
24.206.167.192



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I spent my youth on older Farmall tractors. I still have four of them, but I also have JD hydrostat tractors. My question is: why was the ground speed of the old tractors set so fast. There are times when I want to just slowly creep but have full throttle for power. I can do that with the hydrostat tractor but sure can't with the SC, the SA and others. Looking back, it would seem that it would have been much better to have at least the 1st gear speed down to just a creep while, at the same time, full throttle/power could have been available.

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mkirsch

11-06-2012 10:50:51
64.80.110.74



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 Re: Ground speed too fast on old tractors in reply to BoonvilleKid, 11-04-2012 20:41:29  
We tend to put oversize tires on tractors these days. That increases the ground speed of the tractors significantly.

We also run much narrower rows, 30" rather than 40-48".



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IH fan

11-06-2012 08:25:39
108.238.230.102



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 Re: Ground speed too fast on old tractors in reply to El Toro, 11-04-2012 20:41:29  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

My experience cultivating with a Super C and a little with a C was all done within about a 5 year span, but during those years I did a lot. It was mainly corn, but some beans too. As for being too fast, I never thought it was too fast the first time through, but when we used the regular shields, we ran in 1st gear and idled down to about 1/3 throttle. Most of the time with corn we used what were called "rotary shields" which were like 4 rows of rotary hoe wheels. with those, we drove faster, as a rotary hoe doesn't do much good driving slow... don't need to just poke holes in the ground. As I recall, we drove in 3rd and again about 1/3 to 1/2 throttle. We also had a 2 row rotary hoe we used some times, depending on the soil and weeds.

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BoonvilleKid

11-06-2012 07:21:26
24.206.167.192



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 Re: Ground speed too fast on old tractors in reply to BoonvilleKid, 11-04-2012 20:41:29  
I'm not sure everyone understood my post. I still think the range of ground speeds did not adequately cover the range from "very slow" to "faster". I am thinking specifically about SA & SC tractors. I've probably spent as many hours cultivating with a SC as anyone on this post. And, yes, I've cultivated in all, three lower gears. But, 1st gear, for example, was/is entirely too fast for very small plants, even with the shields down to the dirt line.

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CNKS

11-06-2012 09:19:09
216.144.104.128



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 Re: Ground speed too fast on old tractors in reply to BoonvilleKid, 11-06-2012 07:21:26  
The shallow cultivating I did with a vegetable cultivator had next to no need for power, I ran 1/3-1/2 throttle I think in 2nd, this was an H, and did not have a problem with speed. For early cultivation we used "knives" which throw little soil, could leave maybe a 4 inch or less strip, next to the plants, the rest of the area used normal sweeps -- You can't use normal sweeps close to the small plants that throw a lot of dirt at any speed. Low speed with a vegetable cultivator was never a problem--I think you have the wrong sweeps if you are burying everything. Another way is to cut one wing off the sweeps, I seldom used that.

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LenNH

11-05-2012 18:04:41
75.69.100.76



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 Re: Ground speed too fast on old tractors in reply to BoonvilleKid, 11-04-2012 20:41:29  
Earlier tractors (1920s and somewhat later) were probably designed with two things in mind: belt work and tillage. Three speeds were normal. Second was "plowing gear," at around 3 mph (I have actually seen that expression in old sales literature). Low was probably intended for emergency use in case of serious overload, or maybe for some machines that needed to go slow (but not as slow as some of the modern machines, like tillers). High, usually in the 4 mph range, was almost useless on a steel-wheeled tractor. The engines didn't put out enough power to make up for the loss to the ground through the lugs when pulling the rated load(I estimate about 35% loss on average, by looking at old Nebraska tests). For transport, you could barely stay on a steel-wheeled tractor at 4 mph on a gravel road. Been there many times on my father's 10-20. You ended up throttling way back in second, or running in low full throttle at around 2 mph. All of this is just my view on how tractors were conceived way back then. Ain't got no proof. Road gears did start to appear after rubber tires became common (roughly the mid-thirties), and as one commentator says here, IHC did offer 7-mph high gears for F-20 and F-12 and probably some of the other tractors of that era. Would have been welcome. I spent many an hour roaring along the road at 4 mph on our rubber-tired F-12, hauling loads of grain or hay. That's a mile in 15 minutes!

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IH fan

11-05-2012 17:29:34
108.246.55.220



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 Re: Ground speed too fast on old tractors in reply to Greg K, 11-04-2012 20:41:29  
I remember 1st gear of our JD 60 being almost too slow, until you put it on a chopper in 12' tall silage corn. Low was a lot slower than the Farmalls, but then it had 6 speeds instead of 5 and not as fast in high, so it had a better range until the TA came along.



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John G. Hasler

11-05-2012 16:41:30
174.124.2.151



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 Re: Ground speed too fast on old tractors in reply to BoonvilleKid, 11-04-2012 20:41:29  
I have no problem with the forward speeds of my tractors but the reverse is too fast (especially on the 8N).



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Harold Hubbard

11-05-2012 06:36:24
205.209.16.24



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 Re: Ground speed too fast on old tractors in reply to BoonvilleKid, 11-04-2012 20:41:29  
I guess at the time, everyone wanted to go FASTER than a horse, not slower.



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CNKS

11-05-2012 06:59:20
216.144.104.128



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 Re: Ground speed too fast on old tractors in reply to Harold Hubbard, 11-05-2012 06:36:24  
Correct, Having driven those tractors in the 50's I agree. Janicholsen and and Handyman are also correct. There was no need for a slower gear. To me 1st was too slow and seldom used except for turning with trailing implements or the occasional hard place the the field. The TA fixed most of that. Hydrostatic is now used for many things -- wasn't needed then.



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Wardner

11-05-2012 06:32:11
4.154.255.147



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 Re: Ground speed too fast on old tractors in reply to BoonvilleKid, 11-04-2012 20:41:29  
Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

IH and Howard Rotavator had the situation covered. The H and M could also be ordered, or retrofitted, with Low-Low first gear. I have a 504 with the Low-Low first. Perhaps they all came that way. The TA further reduces the speed.

You can build a slow speed '40s and '50s IH tractor using factory parts if you are willing to spend a few bucks

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F-Dean

11-05-2012 06:12:00
70.194.2.57



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 Re: Ground speed too fast on old tractors in reply to BoonvilleKid, 11-04-2012 20:41:29  
I believe that IHC did offer a slower "Picker Gear" in F-20s.



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Red Dave

11-05-2012 05:07:57
66.216.141.163



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 Re: Ground speed too fast on old tractors in reply to BoonvilleKid, 11-04-2012 20:41:29  
I can see no legitimate comparison between the ground speeds of antique, gear driven, Farmalls to modern, hydrostatic JD's.

If you want to make a legitimate comparison, compare IH Hydro's to JD Hydro's of a similar vintage.

Gear driven and hydro both have advantages and disadvantages. Choose the right tractor for each job.



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sflem849

11-05-2012 03:59:16
69.197.84.39



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 Re: Ground speed too fast on old tractors in reply to BoonvilleKid, 11-04-2012 20:41:29  
I am certain your JD hydro tractors are not of the same vintage as the Farmalls you are comparing them to.

Like they said, not much need.



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SadFarmall

11-04-2012 23:40:19
112.213.197.216



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 Re: Ground speed too fast on old tractors in reply to BoonvilleKid, 11-04-2012 20:41:29  
Here in Australia, many Farmall H and M tractors were fitted with a low first gear. Our AW-7 Diesel had a very low first gear, which was excellent for very heavy work or just inching along when required.

SadFarmall



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Roy in UK

11-04-2012 22:53:38
81.151.103.202



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 Re: Ground speed too fast on old tractors in reply to BoonvilleKid, 11-04-2012 20:41:29  
Am I allowed to mention The name Ferguson on this forum? ( Ha ha). The Grey Ferguson"s 1st gear was way too fast for operating a Howard rotovator so Howards developed a special reduction gearbox that could be fitted to the tractor for use with that implement.



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Handyman

11-04-2012 21:02:43
216.201.66.239



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 Re: Ground speed too fast on old tractors in reply to The tractor vet, 11-04-2012 20:41:29  
at the time that these tractors were made slow ground speeds were not as important as they are now. there were no rotory tillers, or snowblowers or other implements that required really slow ground speeds as we now require more and more all the time.



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Janicholson

11-04-2012 21:00:13
96.24.99.126



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 Re: Ground speed too fast on old tractors in reply to BoonvilleKid, 11-04-2012 20:41:29  
There were no rototillers or slow driven equipment. So gears were adjusted for ground speeds usable for tillage, including cultivation, that could be adjusted with throttle position for very small plants. Some small Farmalls had hydraulic speed attachments to allow very slow speeds for hand transplanting live plants vegetable, and tobacco. Jim



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