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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

tractor keeps running after its shut off

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Kurt LaGrander

10-29-2012 20:40:33
174.124.122.55



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My 450 farmall keeps running after I shut the key off. Popping and snorting. Is it out of time or is it the carb?




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David G

10-30-2012 09:02:11
204.29.138.33



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 Re: tractor keeps running after its shut off in reply to Kurt LaGrander, 10-29-2012 20:40:33  
I agree with Rustred, not timing, idle too fast or excessive carbon.



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rustred

10-30-2012 07:27:40
72.172.100.113



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 Re: tractor keeps running after its shut off in reply to Kurt LaGrander, 10-29-2012 20:40:33  
the best cure for run-on is to adjust the idle screw so engine actually stops when throttle is at slowest idle position. this puts the throttle plate in the fully closed position and it can not run.might not get tractor to completly stop with the screw backed right out though, but it sure helps the problem if yu can get the idle slowed right down. GM cured this problem with an electric solenoid so that when key is turned of the solenoid is deactivated and closes throttle plates completely.

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Berth 29 opinions

10-30-2012 07:15:06
64.12.116.73



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 Re: tractor keeps running after its shut off in reply to Kurt LaGrander, 10-29-2012 20:40:33  

When we had a tractor that developed this problem, (AC D15) we just turned off the ignition with it in gear, let the momentum take it to a stop. In the barn hanging tobacco we would get in place and let the clutch out when we shut it down.

The 140 at one time developed a backfeed thru the alternator, turned it off, the engine would restart. With the key off, 6-8 volts was backfeeding to the coil. unplugging the white connector on the alternator solved this before turning the switch off.

What it would do is cut off, and before the engine stopped turning the current from the alt would fire a spark plug, which would turn the alt, firing more spark plugs. We figured it was getting the 6 volts from somewhere, removing the neg battery cable had no effect, unplugging the alt did.

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The tractor vet

10-30-2012 07:10:17
75.24.0.62



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 Re: tractor keeps running after its shut off in reply to Kurt LaGrander, 10-29-2012 20:40:33  
Ing. timing not set correctly , wrong heat range spark plugs, fuel screw not set correctly . idling to high , to low octane fuel . centrifugal advance not working properly (leads back to ing. timing) , running way to hot ( that goes back to lean fuel mixture , timing , wrong heat range of spark plugs , sticking thermostat, poor coolant flow dirty rad.)



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teddy52food

10-30-2012 06:23:42
184.94.175.179



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 Re: tractor keeps running after its shut off in reply to Kurt LaGrander, 10-29-2012 20:40:33  
Not out of time. When you turn it off the spark is gone. Idel it down for a while to cool off then ride the clutch in high gear as you turn it off.



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Jon Hagen

10-30-2012 19:42:23
69.26.17.61



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 Re: tractor keeps running after its shut off in reply to teddy52food, 10-30-2012 06:23:42  
Teddy, up untill a couple of years ago, I would have agreed with you totally, ignition timing can not cause dieseling because the spark is shut off.

I proved myself wrong when working on an old V6- 478 GMC truck. This old critter always had a terrible dieseling problem when shut down warm. It had an Allison automatic transmission, so I could not put it in gear and kill it with the clutch like you do with a manual transmission.

I had to idle the engine as slow as possible and shut it off with the automatic in gear, after a few minutes idle, but still it liked to crack and pop along,dieseling with the ignition off.

The truck always ran a little warm and had the dieseling problem, but I just wrote it off as the nature of the beast.

I noticed the old truck seemed to run the exhaust system very hot, as wiring and hoses near the exhaust manifolds tended to suffer from excess heat. I got to thinking, late ignition timing is usually the cause of high exhaust temp, might the timing marks be off on this engine ??

I checked and yep, the vibration damper outer ring had slipped and the timing marks were more than 10 degrees later than the marks indicated.

I repaired the timing marks, correctly timed the engine and noticed it ran cooler, had more power and the exhaust ran much cooler. Another amazing thing happened after fixing the timing problem, the old GMC no longer dieseled when shut down warm ?? I knew the ignition timing was shut off, so it could not be igniting the fuel, but it finally sunk in that the late timing had been causing the exhaust valves along with the exhaust manifolds to run very hot, this providing the "hot spot" to ignite the fuel and cause dieseling. Correct ignition timing allowed the exhaust valves to run cooler, so no more dieseling.

I guess what I learned from that is to never say never, as LATE ignition timing on this engine did indeed cause dieseling. :)

Cant hurt to recheck timing on the old farmall, it might be part of the problem, along with too fast an idle.

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mkirsch

10-30-2012 05:29:58
64.80.110.75



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 Re: tractor keeps running after its shut off in reply to Kurt LaGrander, 10-29-2012 20:40:33  
You've got a fresh engine with tons of compression, and you're working the tractor like a government mule. That creates excessive heat, and the hot spots old is talking about.

There is no one "right" plug. You need hotter plugs if you just putter around the yard, and cooler plugs if you flog the thing.

In Champion plugs, the higher the number the hotter the plug IIRC. D21 is hottest, D15Y is coolest. Autolite is not as straightforward with their numbering so I don't want to stick my neck out on that one. People don't like Champion plugs anymore though.

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CNKS

10-30-2012 05:22:38
216.144.104.128



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 Re: tractor keeps running after its shut off in reply to Kurt LaGrander, 10-29-2012 20:40:33  
You can also stop it by pulling out the choke, that's the way I stopped my M. Some say this dumps more gas in the cylinders and washes the oil off. Did that for years, but the M saw little use.



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gene bender

10-29-2012 22:36:18
207.177.56.85



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 Re: tractor keeps running after its shut off in reply to Kurt LaGrander, 10-29-2012 20:40:33  
Just shut it off in gear. You have bad plugs doesent hirt to cool the engine down a little before shuttiing off.



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Owen Aaland

10-29-2012 22:28:03
216.47.35.22



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 Re: tractor keeps running after its shut off in reply to Kurt LaGrander, 10-29-2012 20:40:33  
Too high a heat range spark plug can also contribute to the problem.



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Kurt LaGrander

10-29-2012 22:35:24
174.124.122.55



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 Re: tractor keeps running after its shut off in reply to Owen Aaland, 10-29-2012 22:28:03  
What plug should I be running in a 450 farmall?



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old

10-30-2012 08:33:06
209.86.226.57



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 Re: tractor keeps running after its shut off in reply to Kurt LaGrander, 10-29-2012 22:35:24  

If I remember right a champ D-18 is the correct or very close to the correct plug. Been a few years since I did the 450 for a friend



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old

10-29-2012 21:35:40
209.86.226.34



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 Re: tractor keeps running after its shut off in reply to Kurt LaGrander, 10-29-2012 20:40:33  
Running as in what is called dieseling or running as in true engine running?? If dieseling that is caused by hot spots in the engine which in turn is burning the fuel that is still being sucked into the engine from the carb. It is caused by carbon build up in the cylinder on the valves and the top of the pistons. On some it helps to pour a qt if ATF into 3-5 gal of gas and run it that way to clean out the carbon

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DeltaRed

10-29-2012 21:56:49
67.6.219.50



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 Re: tractor keeps running after its shut off in reply to old, 10-29-2012 21:35:40  
My SM hasa done that for years,even right after it was o'hauled'.Timeing has been checked...Is this because it has too much cumpression?The head was 'planed',and it has hi-altitude stephead pistons.It's always been worked hard,so its never had a chance to get carboned up.Are there other things that could cause that?



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old

10-29-2012 22:20:54
209.86.226.34



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 Re: tractor keeps running after its shut off in reply to DeltaRed, 10-29-2012 21:56:49  
Again can be caused by hot spots as in shut down with out letting it idle for a bit to cool down some. Of course if you turn off the gas then let it die that way then turn off the switch that will stop it or should



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Kurt LaGrander

10-29-2012 22:13:24
174.124.122.55



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 Re: tractor keeps running after its shut off in reply to DeltaRed, 10-29-2012 21:56:49  
Yes my 450 was just overhauled too. Not sure why it would be carboned up?



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old

10-29-2012 22:22:48
209.86.226.34



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 Re: tractor keeps running after its shut off in reply to Kurt LaGrander, 10-29-2012 22:13:24  
No would not be from carbon but form hot spots caused by not letting it idle some to cool before shutting it off. Of course on way to stop the problem is shut off the gas let it die then turn off the ignition



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scotc

10-30-2012 19:03:59
75.234.227.50



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 Re: tractor keeps running after its shut off in reply to old, 10-29-2012 22:22:48  
You could try a higher octane gas. The lower octane gas is detonating with good compression in the hot motor.



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