Black was an original seat cover?

Mike CA · Apr 5, 2012

I'm talking with Darrell about a new seat for my '44 H, and he says the original color for the canvas was black. Someone else mentioned that in my previous thread, but that was the first time I've ever heard of black as an original seat cover color. I've always heard it was silver.

Does anyone have any solid source that states one way or the other for a 1944 Farmall? I can just choose what I prefer... which I'm thinking will be silver, but I'm restoring this tractor back to (better than) original condition, so if it should be black, then maybe I'll go that way.

Any source help is greatly appreciated.

Mike CA · Apr 5, 2012

Forgot to mention, it is Darrel Darst I'm working with via e-mail.

gene bender · Apr 5, 2012

Neighbors got new tractors in my area around that time not many but there were a few and i never seen a Black seat on any6 of them. Im talking B,H and M. Early models from sales data does show some with Black around 39-40. You have 12v so seat color shouldnt be important as your tractor isnt original.

John M · Apr 5, 2012

Why are you doughting Darrell? Hes pretty knowledgalpe about these things. I guess you could go to the WHS and look at some of the pics there, maybe see one with a black seat.

Farmallhal · Apr 5, 2012

Jim Becker posted a photo a year or so ago on this forum which showed a railcar loaded with Farmall C's which appeared to have black seats or at least looked so in the photo. Darrell should know as he has pulled enough old seats apart where the original color would have been visible on the rements under the rolled seat lip. I was on a lot of the 1940's and 50's Farmalls as a kid driving all the neighborhood Farmalls during the period when grandpa thrashed all the farms in this area and never remember a black seat on one though. Whatever you choose will look very nice on your H, Hal.

Nebraska Cowman · Apr 5, 2012

Yes, black to after the War I think. But silver
was what the farmer bought to replace it when the
cover wore out in the 50s and 60s. It's kinda like
the silver painted rear rims. What is correct,
what came from the factory or what we are used to
seeing for the last 50 years? I'd probably put
black on it but you do as you please. The silver
will look nice too. John Deere restorers have the
same problem. They used black cushions until the
very last of the 2 cylinders. But the they were
most all replaced with yellow. We have seen yellow
on them so long that it looks correct.

Ron-MO · Apr 5, 2012

Not sure if this is the photo, but I recalled borrowing it about that time. Neat photo.

mkirsch · Apr 5, 2012

Silver and yellow are a whole lot easier on the rump if the tractor has been sitting in the sun for any length of time.

Nothing I hate more than the smell of burning flesh after sitting on a black seat on a sunny summer day.

DC Snider · Apr 5, 2012

I've looked through the WHS archives at great length when I done my '51 M. The only photo that comes to my mind showing black seats is the one above with all the "C's" on railcars. I've not seen a picture of an "M" wth a black seat, but I wouldn't doubt one, especially in war years. I do have an original "C" seat, in black "oil cloth" for lack of a better description, that someone welded on a "M" seat rail. I have no reason or evidence to believe it's ever been recovered.

Darrel Darst done mine, and I'd consider him the authority. If he would've found black under the hem of mine when he took it apart, that's the way I'd have done it. I'd say none of us have the experience Darrel has with seats...

gene bender · Apr 5, 2012

I never seen a C with a Black seat they were silver gray canvas and two neighbors got them when new in spring of 48 ive seen that pic blowed up and they werent black.

DeltaRed · Apr 5, 2012

I once worked for a man who had 'recovered'a couple
tractors with tractor inner tube.It would blister
your butt on a hot sunny day!

sflem849 · Apr 5, 2012

(quoted from post at 07:02:46 04/05/12) I once worked for a man who had 'recovered'a couple
tractors with tractor inner tube.It would blister
your butt on a hot sunny day!

My arm felt like it would burn touching the outside of my car yesterday and it was only 60 here in WI.

Cowman is pretty smart on this stuff so I trust his opinion.

If I had a personal GUESS I would say the black seats left when the rest of the '39 stuff left.

The seats in the picture are black. The mufflers would be the same color as the seats if the seats were silver. I don't care if it is blown up or that size the color won't change.

redgems · Apr 5, 2012

If it were mine I would go silver.
I started hanging around I.H. tractors in early 50's ,some were already old and never saw black on any of them.
Darrell is political correct! and a authority on the subject, but in REAL life in Ca 99.9% of poeple appreciating this tractor will remember Silver.and will be asking you why you screwed up and put black.
Also IMO silver sets your red off better and as mentioned not as hot on your butt.
My H is a 1945 with steel gear knob and cast light clamps and all we could find was silver under lip of seat.
Just my 2 cents.
Good luck, Tony

Ron-MO · Apr 5, 2012

I zoomed the photo, and it sure does not look like it could be anything but black to me. Same thing with the A or Super A's sitting in line behind the rail cars. Those are definetely C's (not SC's) on the rail cars, which would date the photo between 48 and 51. The 50 C I own was Dad's, and growing up the seat cover was all but gone by the early 60's, so they did not hold up well (it sat out in the weather), and what was left on the edges of it appeared grey in color which leads me to wonder if they did not 'weather' or wear the black coloring to a grey or silver? Just a thought for discussion.

Farmallhal · Apr 5, 2012

Ron, that is the photo I recall that Jim Becker posted when this was discussed earlier. Hope all is well up your way and did we ever have a great winter? Looks like it might be another hay in May year the way things are growing down this way. Stop by sometime if you are down in this area of the state, Hal.

Jim Becker · Apr 5, 2012

Yes, that is the picture I have posted in the past. It is hard to find pictures of black seat covers in the archives as nearly all pictures prior to the very late '40s are in black and white. The seats changed to silver around late '49. Then many pictures were shot at too low an angle to see the seat. If they were from high enough, there is usually somebody sitting on it.

Service Bulletin S-6008, dated 10/14/49, told the dealers that the seat color was changing from black to silver. That bulletin was printed, in part, in Harvester Highlites, can't tell you which issue.

Mike CA · Apr 6, 2012

I got a response from Guy Fay, who said Black indeed was the original color up until 1949, which then switched to Silver. Red and White was an aftermarket color.

So, that should make the decision easy, except for the point brought up by many of you about the seat heating up. I live in the Central Valley of California, and it gets very hot in the summer. It's a show tractor, so if I plan on driving it after it's been sitting in the sun during a show, I could burn my buns off.

Burn the buns making it original, or go with silver? hmmmmmm

Mike CA · Apr 6, 2012

Got a reply from Darrell. Apparently he's upset with Guy Fay because he didn't consult him before publishing his originality guide! :lol:

So... Darrell is the man, and Black is the color. And I guess no matter what color I get, it's gonna get scortching hot in the CA sun, so I'm going with black.

sflem849 · Apr 6, 2012

Did he email or reply on a different forum?

Mike CA · Apr 6, 2012

e-mail for both

gene bender · Apr 7, 2012

I dont know where he got the black seat info as i have said the new tractors i seen new in our area did not have any black seats and there were several new ones in our area before WWII and after. The new B in 47 also did not have a black seat and i have seen a couple of older seats original no black. Some advertising pics do show a moulded black seat but iv never seen any of those on a tractor.

Anonymous-0 · Apr 7, 2012

Thats like the paint codes colors on machinery they didnt follow those or else it is a bad note from paint committe Ive seen too many new implements that werent painted according to paint data from I-H. Interesting item why put front adjustable rims on an adjustable front axle but they did.

noisy dad · Apr 8, 2012

I have a hessian bag on my seat for the 'genuine' working clothes look.

Black was an original seat cover?

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