856 Advise please.

I have a chance to get an 856 with a Dual loader for $4000. The guy said a rod bearing went and either twisted or bent the crank ( I can't remember his exact wording on that). The tractor is split so I cannot check anything, although he says everything such as the T/A, lift and PTO all work. The tach shows just over 3000 hours and he says he is sure this is correct. Sheet metal looks good and straight. Rear tires close to new, needs new fronts. I did not see any oil seepage around the rear end or the PTO's. He said the engine developed a knock. The crank and pistons are out of the engine and he has a new crankshaft and one new rod, gasket set and I think he said new bearings. The rest of the engine is together. I really do not have the time and the money right now to tear the complete engine apart and go through everything. With damage to the crankshaft do you guys think the block survived that alright? The loader frame seemed in excellent shape but needs new hoses, bucket is in average condition. Should I take a chance on this or run the other way?

Thanks,
Mark.

I would think the block would be okay as long as it didn't throw a rod. If you have neither the time, expertise, or the money to hire someone to go thru that engine, I would pass on it. The D407 is not an engine for the noivice to tackle. Everything needs to be exactly in spec and done right. Also, I wouldn't risk putting a 407 back together half assed because if you do and it shucks another rod and ruins the block you are screwed. D407 blocks are next to impossible to find. I would question why the guy didn't fix it himself and then sell it if he has is torn apart and has the parts. I would guess that he found out he was in over his head and what it would cost and decided to abandon ship. Also even though he claims TA and clutch are good now is the time to take a good look at them. That could mean more dollars. In my opinion to get that tractor back in good running condition you could be looking at a lot of dollars. The Tractor Vet would be a good one to weigh in on this. He can give you some of the ins and outs of the D407.

I have some experience with engine rebuilds, not a 407 though. He said he had too many projects going on to finish ,may be the truth may not be, who knows.

I would walk away. Hal

Get it. If you don't want to spend the money to put the engine together right, (send to machine shop to get exactly in spec) it is worth $4000+ in parts. The loader nearly $2000, rear tires $1000+, 3 point, wide front parts, sheet metal, cylinder head, radiator, cast rear wheels, transmission parts, fenders, possibly good block, all with low hours....... Wayne

I would have a hard time believing a 56 series tractor would only have 3000 hours.I would bet on 13000 hours. But in my part of the world that tractor is a good deal, if everything is in the condition you say its in. Still you would have to be prepared on spending 4 to 5 grand on the tractor because as Wayne said this is the time to have the TA and clutch checked out.Keep us informed and some pics would be helpful. Kent

Hi Mark,

You asked for advice, so here another opinion, and maybe a little humor.

A disassembled tractor is definetly a basket case or a pig-in-a-poke, so just expect the worst and you won't be disapointed. Do you like puzzles? This could be a very big challenging puzzle unless you are already familiar with rebuilding an 856.

What is the market value of the tractor in fair working condition? If you need to make any money off it subtract two times the cost of parts and your labor combined to arrive at a maximum price to offer for it (contingencies always happen). Scrap price could be too much to pay for it.

Loader hours are hard on a tractor chassis compared to steady field work hours. The tractor is about 40 years old, the tachometer is probably not working or it has been replaced. Look for wear on the clutch and brake pedals and pivots, the shifters and linkages, the seat suspension, the front end steering, the drawbar and the 3-point hitch to estimate the hours on the tractor. Is the paint poor but original, or old? A low hour, long time owned tractor would not be recently repainted.

Since the tractor is split apart it will be harder or more expensive for you to load, unload, and move around. The same for the an unmounted loader.

The loader has some value. As for the tractor, the seller will have trouble getting anything over scrap metal price for the tractor unless he re-assembles it or he parts it out. If he just wants to get rid of the tractor he will be more than happy with scrap price since he won't have to haul it away. I would not expect him to spend much time hunting for every last part and manual for just scrap price though.

How long has the tractor been apart, are all the parts still there and are they still good? Are the clutch, TA, transmission, rear end, hydraulics, radiator and batteries still reliable? There is no easy way for you to verify that everything (or anything at all) is OK as claimed until you get it home and get it running again.

Did the rod bearing spin because a cylinder liner cavitated through and coolant mixed with the engine oil? If it did the other cylinder liners are probably in the same condition. To be safe, just figure the engine needs an overhaul or is junk. The current owner has probably already reached that same opinion or he would have finished it. Anything better than that is gravy for you.

Do you have the time and money to gamble on this tractor? Have you rebuilt an IH 361/407 engine before? The odds are against you making any money on it unless you can find a good engine to bolt into it. Do any IH combines use a 407 engine?

Perhaps it would be easier to justify buying the tractor as a hobby instead of as a capital investment? That way if you work on it for months or a year and it still turns south then at least you had fun!

As a hobby is the only way I could justify buying a tractor or any other machine that is disassembled. It's another 2 cents worth, more or less.

Good luck.

Not me i would just make sure that i had all the nuts and bolts . But i know how to work on them . And if i could snag it for chump change she would be in the field as soon as the ground dries out a tad more.

Is it a gas or a diesel engine? If it is a gas engine it would probably have more value as a collector tractor rather than a working tractor.

Since it had a connecting rod problem that ruined the crankshaft, most likely the bearing shelled out. If that is the case the entire engine will have to be torn apart and cleaned or there is a good chance that debris left in the engine will destroy it again in a short time.

Thanks for the replies. Still undecided at this point. I would be buying the tractor to keep and use, not trying to make any money off of it. I read one post and I am ready to go get it, then I read another and it kind of steers me the other way. Does anyone have an opinion on the loader itself? He said the model number was 3 something. If it came off of the 856 what else would it bolt right up to. Mostly I am looking for a tractor with a loader on it. The 56 series are my favorite tractor though. Thought I might kill two birds with one stone. I know these type tractors are not the best loader tractors, but if I used logic and common sense everytime I did something I would never get anything done.

Thanks again.
Mark