M locked up

johndeeregreen · Sep 19, 2011

My buddy has an old M in his shed for many years, a while ago he took the spark plugs out, poured a little oil down the oil. Let it sit for a month, turned it over by hand, put the plugs back in, tried to start it, was turning over fine, then all of a sudden it locked up. He just thought the started locked up, took that off, tired to turn the engine over by hand, won"t move either way. Any idea whats wrong before we tear into it?

davediehl@hotmail.com · Sep 19, 2011

Probably got a ring that dug into the sleeve and wedged.

Janicholson · Sep 19, 2011

Put it in 5th gear and rock the tractor back and forth hard. If the fan moves at all, it is probably not the rings. Pull the pan and valve cover. and look for obvious grief. If the crank can be turned back and forth, and the valve train does not move, the cam gears may be toast. If it has a hydraulic pump in front of the distributor, there is a good probability of failed gears.
Jim

Bob M · Sep 19, 2011

Can almost guarantee the starter pinion has jammed in the flywheel ring gear. It is a very common problem on H and M tractors as the ring gears wear out.

Try rocking the tractor in 5th gear like Jim suggests. Or loosen the bolts holding the starter to the bell housing then pull back/wiggle the starter a bit. If you hear a clunk and the crankshaft now turns, retighten the starter and you'll be good to go - at least until the starter jams again.

The only permanent fix is to split the tractor and replace the ring gear.

old · Sep 19, 2011

I would first pull the plugs back out and make sure it did not hydro lock due to having oil or water or something else in the cylinders. Also might loosen up the fan belt and make sure the water pump did not lock up. Had an M that had that problem and we thought it was locked up but it was the water pump

rustred · Sep 19, 2011

he says the starter is off.

Jason the Red · Sep 19, 2011

I second the hydro-lock theory. Take the plugs out and see if it turns over then. I bet it spits out some of that oil.

rustred · Sep 19, 2011

he says it wont turn either way. if your hydro-locked , it can be turned in reverse.

Brownie 450 · Sep 19, 2011

I'd isolate trouble to the engine or transmission. Block the clutch ahead & try to turn the engine. If the engine turns over now, could be a locked up bearing in the trans. or hydraulic pump.

johndeeregreen · Sep 19, 2011

Thanks to everyone with an idea. We"ll start tearing into it and let you know what happened. Now I have a few ideas on what to try first.
Thanks again

F-Dean · Sep 19, 2011

Did you turn the gas off when you parked it?

Twice I have forgotten to turn off the gas when I parked my M. The gas over-powered the float in the carb and ran directly into the cyclinder. (I have since replaced the carb.) Being a liquid, it will not compress. The result is that the cyclinder under compression cannot move.

Solution: Remove the plugs; make sure the on/off switch is OFF; and turn it over with a hand crank. After a few turns you can use the starter but leave the on/off switch OFF to prevent any sparks. And NO SMOKING!

Let it set while you change the oil and filter -- you may have gas in the oil. After an hour or so, put the plugs in and try starting it.

Good luck.

johndeeregreen · Sep 19, 2011

Before he tried to start it, he pulled the plugs out and turned it over 20 times, then put the plugs in and tried to start it. The clutch was pushed in when it locked up.

mike1972chev · Sep 19, 2011

I 3RD the hydro lock theory! If you got any amount of oil out into the exaust manifold area,it could have re entered the combustion chamber while cranking it.

Pull the plugs back out and spin it over several times.

I bet you get a bunch of SH@T out of the plug holes!

rustred · Sep 19, 2011

ya, right.! how is that possible? now that makes no sense.

rustred · Sep 19, 2011

i dont think you gave us all the info. make sure you tell us what you find.

old · Sep 19, 2011

I have a A/C D-17 that had so much stuff in the cylinders that till I pulled the plug out it would not turn over either way. It some how had a mouse nest in more then one cylinder and boy what a mess but I did get it running and never did pull the head off and now days it is an easy start tractor

mike1972chev · Sep 20, 2011

IDK? We all are really "guessing" at this point.Only problem about a discussion forum is that we are not actually there,are we??

Could be MANY different things that could be causing it?

If it was WAY overfilled,I am thinking it might be possible to have locked up more than one cylinder,maybe ????Might not be able to roll it backwards?

How much trouble is it anyway to pull those plugs out and try it anyway????? If it is STILL locked up,move on to the MORE difficult stuff !!!!

That is all I am saying.

sflem849 · Sep 20, 2011

(quoted from post at 17:44:24 09/19/11) Before he tried to start it, he pulled the plugs out and turned it over 20 times, then put the plugs in and tried to start it. The clutch was pushed in when it locked up.

It could not be hydro locked if he did this...

JRSutton · Sep 20, 2011

If it was just turning over, I doubt it's locked up from any liquid -gas, oil, or water. MAYBE coolant getting drawn in on the intake stroke, but that's all easily checked by pulling the plugs as everyone else has suggested.

Since it was frozen when you began, and freed up with oil, the first thing I'd worry about is that you lost a ring.

Just because you freed the engine doesn't mean the rings are going to enjoy being forced up and down against corroded cylinder walls.

I know there are a lot of guys who do the soak-until-free method, but personally, if the tractor's been sitting for more than a year, and it's an engine I care about, I'm a big fan of pulling the head and lightly honing the cylinders (with pistons in place) to remove all the corrosion.

Leaving it there puts a lot of stress on the rings.

sflem849 · Sep 20, 2011

(quoted from post at 05:42:40 09/20/11) If it was just turning over, I doubt it's locked up from any liquid -gas, oil, or water. MAYBE coolant getting drawn in on the intake stroke, but that's all easily checked by pulling the plugs as everyone else has suggested.

Since it was frozen when you began, and freed up with oil, the first thing I'd worry about is that you lost a ring.

Just because you freed the engine doesn't mean the rings are going to enjoy being forced up and down against corroded cylinder walls.

I know there are a lot of guys who do the soak-until-free method, but personally, if the tractor's been sitting for more than a year, and it's an engine I care about, I'm a big fan of pulling the head and lightly honing the cylinders (with pistons in place) to remove all the corrosion.

Leaving it there puts a lot of stress on the rings.

How do you get all the crud out/keep it from going down when you do that? I'm not knocking the procedure. I have actually wanted to do it myself, but was afraid of sending the crud straight down into more important parts. I shop vaced my holes when I used the ridge reamer, but it didn't seem to get all of it.

JRSutton · Sep 20, 2011

The way I look at it is that it's all in there anyway, so any of it that you can remove, the better off you are.

I hone what's there before freeing it up, that way most of it is dry enough to vac right up - then soak it, knock it free, then hone any areas that get exposed after moving it. Usually what's below the pistons isn't as bad.

And when I say hone, I'm not talking anything heavy, just enough to remove the stuff that sticks out. You don't want to try to undo any deep pitting, you'd have to take too much material off. The walls usually remain discolored.

get most of remaining junk with kerosene soaked rags. Oil it all when done.

I suspect the problem of corrosion is very different in different areas of the country. In the northeast, we have a lot of wild temperature changes, lots of condensation and moisture getting into everything. I've seen cylinders that have sat for less than two years that you'd swear were sitting for 20.

I know the soak and go method would work on them, but when they're that bad, there's no way you're not taking years off the life of the rings.

johndeeregreen · Sep 20, 2011

yes the first thing we are going to do is pull the plugs. Its going to be a little bit because we are in the soy beans now.

No the engine was not froze up when we started.

M locked up

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