656 Starter ?

I need to replace the starter drive clutch and the ring gear on the 656 I just acquired. Having a hard time figuring out which part #s I want. The tractor is a Farmall 656 Hydro Diesel. Seems to be a number of different combinations and I not sure that the ones on it were even correct or a matched combination, hence the problem. I cant find a # on the starter anywhere. Where should it be? Any help appreciated!
Thanks
Tim

This issue has been dealt with different times before. I think a hydro diesel only had one combination but not sure of that. I know the gear drive gas burners had a couple. You need to count the teeth on the ring gear and the starter drive. Far as number on starter, it is probably a rebuilt unit and they get rid of original numbers, other wise it will be stamped on barrel if no plate on it.

My parts book only shows one starter for a 656 diesel Hydro. Original number should be 1113201. Drive number is 1970544. Drive number 1877347 will also fit.

That starter is a DelcoRemy model 30MT, CCW rotation. Starter drive should be a 10 tooth, either 3 or 6 spline. Drive ID is 14.3 mm. Gear OD is 32 mm. Drive length is 97 mm.

I looked at a picture of an 1877347 drive but it doesn’t look like the one in my starter. Mine does have 10 teeth but looks more like the 1877350 drive. Does this mean the starter is the wrong model?
At this point both my ring gear & the starter drive are pretty chewed up. I can still get it to start but it isn’t getting any better and Id like to fix it. I just want to make sure the starter is correct for the ring gear if I’m going to replace it.

The replacement drives may be a little different but the basic dimensions that I gave you should always be the same. Here is a comparison of a couple of drives that are interchangeable but have different length gears and clutch sizes.

http://66.46.21.101/RCPOnline/SearchList.aspx?SearchBy=Exact&PART=1877347

The ring gear part number should be 396421R1 but unfortunately they do not list gear teeth count.

This just gets more & more confusing! I’ve been looking up part #s myself. I agree the ring gear should be a 396421R1 but don’t know how many teeth are on it.
However I found 2 different starters listed for a diesel 656 hydro. A 1113201 and a 1113198. The drives you mention (1970544 & 1877347) are both for the 1113201 starter. Physical apperance of these drives are totally diffeent than on my starter.
The drive on mine is a 10 tooth and appears to be a 1877350 hovever if I assume I have the other starter listed, 1113198, it list the drive as a 1965788, which is a 12 tooth but physically looks just like the one on mine. So should I assume I have the 1113198 starter since the drives physically look like the same type and that mine simple has the wrong drive on it. Maybe that explains why it isn’t working properly?
Tim

I show three different starters for a 656 diesel. 1113187 is listed first. It is for the gear drive transmission. Listed second is 1113201 for tractors with hydrostatic drive transmission. Listed third is 1113198 for gear drive tractors. It is also listed as the replacement for 1113187. The gear drive starters have the commutator end frame and some of the barrel machined off to fit the clutch housing. The drive end frames list different part numbers. The DE frame for the Hydro has the shaft centered in the mounting bolt pattern. (64 mm from each hole.) I did not come up with any replacement end frame for the gear drive so I do not know if the armature is centered or offset from the mounting holes.

I believe that the RCP Inc. website has incorrect information on the drive specifications. They list 1970544 and 1877347 as being 9 tooth drive with a 29 mm gear OD. All the other information I have lists them as 10 tooth with 32 mm OD. 1970544 is a spragg type clutch so it has a larger diameter clutch housing than the lighter roller clutch used in 1877347. The outside diameter of the drive gear should tell you for sure what the drive is.