Favorite Engine Un-stuck-ing Mixture????

I have a chance to pick up a fairly complete "H" that has a stuck engine for really cheap. It has a WFE which i want for my "H". But before I tear it apart, I might try to see if I can unstick it. The owner says that that it has been stuck about two years. So what is your favorite "potion" for pouring into the cylinders, and how long do you let it soak? I'm interested in hearing any and all "tricks" Thanks...Jon

ATF & acetone...50/50

ATF & acetone...50/50

1/3 ATF, 1/3 Isopropal Alcohol, 1/3 Diesel Fuel. My experience is on JD 2 cyls, usually try rocking the flywheel after a week. Sometimes it loosens right away, longest was three months. Good Luck, Billy

KRoil if the sleeves arent rusty. If they are I pull the head and just bust the pistons, IF the sleeve wont pop up with the piston.

Well since about 75% of the tractor I buy are locked up lets just say I have tried a few thing and do know what works what what does not. #1 if you find that it has had the exhaust open so water gets in NOTHING short of taking it apart will free it up. #1 I fill the cylinders with ATF and walk away from if. I then use the starter only with a 12 volt battery wit short fast taps on the start button. Plug out but always put the plugs back in when just letting sit. If that does not work then ad turpentine to the cylinder and walk away again. I also pour ATF into the exhaust pipe till it reaches a point it starts to leak out some place

I like a mix of Diesel Fuel,,,,,,,,Brake Fluid,,,,,,,Auto Tranny Fluid. Works for me and give it plenty time to soak n refill if necessary.

John T

Kerosene or CaseIH penetrating oil. The latter if the kero won't work. I used it to free up some pistons that were installed in an engine that was never closed up & used. It sat in a damp corner of a barn basement for the better half of 30 years. The CaseIH stuff worked when nothing else would. Pulled the pistons the same week. Not bad!

Mike

Are you saying INSTEAD of pulling the head? or once you pull the head?

Personally I wouldn't even consider doing it without pulling the head.

I've seen some NASTY corrosion develop from less than two years of sitting.

Or course, it does depend on your locale, and how the tractor was stored. But here in the northeast with lots of moist air and wide temperature swings - a cylinder can get thoroughly encrusted in a years time.

You can free them up, but if you start an engine with that much crud in it, you're just grinding your cylinders down needlessly.

At a minimume, I'd pop the head, use a cylinder hone lightly on the areas you can see if they're caked in rust.

Wipe everything out the best you can.

THEN throw in some atf, and you can make sure you get it all around

Give the pistons a good smack with a hammer and block of wood (don't go too crazy). Sometimes that'll be enough to free them up.

If so - crank it a few times - wipe it out - wash rinse repeat.

well, PB Blaster is my "snake oil" of choice. Not saying that the other cocktails don't work, just never tried any of them. I have also use Kroil on smaller engines, but find it a wee bit expensive for larger ones. Also works well.

The secret to using a liquid to free up rusted pistons is two fold. One important property of the liquid is low surface tension. That is what allows it to "flow" into the clearance between the piston and cylinder. That really doesn't break down the rust bond. What it does is prepare a lubricated surface that has less adhesion than the rusted dry suface. That way, when a piston starts to move slightly, you go from the rusted, highly adhesive contact points to a lubricated one. remember, this is almost on a microscopic level. The petroleum based product will not "disolve" rust. It only reduces the adhesion factor dramatically.

so, low surface tension on a petroleum based liquid is the secret here. Others can disagree, but that is the mechanics behind it.

The other technique which also works well is with the head off, pour diesel or kero into the cylinders. Light it, and let it burn off. This does 2 things. 1.) provides lubrication as diesel and kero have modest lubricative properties. 2.) The heating of the cylinders and pistons breaks the rust adhesive bond. sleeves and pistons are different metals, and therefor have a different coeficient of expansion, even if slight. This differential in expansion also breaks the rust bond. that is why heating a stuck bolt or nut works. Rust bond is broken, and the bolt/nut can turn.

If you are still having trouble picturing this, remember back to high school physics with the brass ring and the steel ring. One wouldn't fit through the other when cold. heat them up, and it would pass through. Different coeficients of expansion. Same thing applied with the heating from the burning diesel or kero.

Jon I like snoop-nc or old's mixture,but also put the tractor on some ramps and put the tractor in 5th gear and have it so that it will roll backwards. Have it steep enough so that when the mixture loosens the pistons it will roll backwards and also your motor. When your tractor is on the ground the motor is free.
Bob

Here is a true story on one I did a few years ago. Allis D-17 real ruff tractor. Was stuck but not real bad but and here is where it gets odd/funny. All the cylinders seemed like they had mouse nest in them. I had filled the cylinder with ATF to free it up which it did but when I spun it over to clear them out I kept getting what looked like straw etc out of it. Finally got it to the point it would hit on 1 cylinder then 2 and then got it to where it would sort of run. Kept at it for a couple days and I still have yet to pull the head off or the valve cover even and it is one of the better running tractor I have on the place. So you do not always need to pull the head to get one running well I know I have done at least 20 and have not pull the heads yet

ATF & acetone...50/50

When an engine is stuck, how do you know if it is stuck "good" or "bad"? That is until 3 months later?

1) ATF/Acetone
2) PB Blaster
3) Fire

That is it you do not know and if your lucky the person you got the tractor from #1 tells you the truth about it and #2 has kept the exhaust covered up. On any engine be it tractor lawn mower car or truck if it is locked up at best it is a gamble and you need to know just how to play the cards right to win as is in any thing you do in life. Shoot life at best is a gamble and you need to know when to hold them and when to fold them and when to walk away as Kenny says

Pull the head and if the tractor is away from any building and the ATF doesn't free the engine
pour kerosene on top of one piston and set it on fire. Remove anything flammable off the engine. Drain the pan and remove it. Remove the connecting rod nuts on the piston you're heating and once the piston is hot use a piece of 2 X 2 oak and a big hammer and place the oak on the rod and see if you can drive out the piston and rod. Hal

Yeah, you really don't know what you've got in there till you look.

I know you CAN easily get an engine to run without taking the head off, but it's not like taking the head off is a particulary challenging task.

But that amount of work is what makes it a personal decision on whether or not it's worth doing.

If you're planning a full rebuild in the near future anyway, then I wouldn't worry about it.

But if you're hoping to get as much use out of it as you can before rebuilding, I personally think it's worth doing.

Chances are you'll find little to worry about, and it will have been all for nothing. But at least you'll feel better knowing it's fine every time you fire it up.

Just be smart and pull the head then and only then you will know what condition the engine is and then you can go from there. Head basket is cheap when comparing to snake oil and all the time if it ever gets loose. There is a reason that its stuck and you cant see that intil the head is off. You can always use methods after the head is removed.

after head is removed, my tools of choice are a round block of hard wood size of bore and sledge hammer, hyd. jack. as far as the mixture, it dont really matter. then dissasemble and order parts.

What the heck is ATF. Alchol, tobacco, and Firearms LOL?

Im kinda wondering. When I worked as a machanic, at a glass plant, and we had to put a ring around a shaft, We would heat the ring, at the same time putting dry ice around the shaft.

If there was a way of packing dry ice against the cyl head, or comeing up from the bottom of the cyl with some of it held somehow on s stick or rod and held against the cyl, if that might not shrink the cyl a tad, then tap it, I can see where, if it got too cold, it might shatter when tapped. Dont know if u could get enough of it against the cyl and away from the block to do much damage that way.

(quoted from post at 23:29:55 06/29/11) What the heck is ATF. Alchol, tobacco, and Firearms LOL?

Im kinda wondering. When I worked as a machanic, at a glass plant, and we had to put a ring around a shaft, We would heat the ring, at the same time putting dry ice around the shaft.

If there was a way of packing dry ice against the cyl head, or comeing up from the bottom of the cyl with some of it held somehow on s stick or rod and held against the cyl, if that might not shrink the cyl a tad, then tap it, I can see where, if it got too cold, it might shatter when tapped. Dont know if u could get enough of it against the cyl and away from the block to do much damage that way.

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ATF = Automatic Transmission Fluid

I have had good luck with Deep Creep Sea Foam I use it on all of my stuck motors. We had two dc cases that were stuck pretty good and managed to get both of them free in a week. I would definetly make sure that all of the valves are not stuck because I have seen some badly bent push rods otherwise. Don't nessecarily have to remove the head though. You can also thread a couble of bolts into the hub where your belt pulley goes. Then engage the belt pulley unit and take a big pry bar and rock it back and forth.

(quoted from post at 03:42:40 06/29/11) Here is a true story on one I did a few years ago. Allis D-17 real ruff tractor. Was stuck but not real bad but and here is where it gets odd/funny. All the cylinders seemed like they had mouse nest in them. I had filled the cylinder with ATF to free it up which it did but when I spun it over to clear them out I kept getting what looked like straw etc out of it. Finally got it to the point it would hit on 1 cylinder then 2 and then got it to where it would sort of run. Kept at it for a couple days and I still have yet to pull the head off or the valve cover even and it is one of the better running tractor I have on the place. So you do not always need to pull the head to get one running well I know I have done at least 20 and have not pull the heads yet

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Its been my experience that if you leave Allis Chalmers sit for a long period of time they can be notorious for getting stuck.

A borescope works great for seeing inside a engine with out pulling anymore then the spark plugs. If it don't look to bad inside the bore's Id mix a quart of ATF a quart of acetone and a pint of kerosene together. Dump into the spark plug holes ( Fill till it wont take anymore) put the spark plugs back in and wait a week. After a week pull the spark plugs back out put the tractor in high and try to and rock it pushing on the tire. Watch the fan for movement. If that don't work then pull the head.

(quoted from post at 19:42:40 06/28/11) Here is a true story on one I did a few years ago. Allis D-17 real ruff tractor. Was stuck but not real bad but and here is where it gets odd/funny. All the cylinders seemed like they had mouse nest in them. I had filled the cylinder with ATF to free it up which it did but when I spun it over to clear them out I kept getting what looked like straw etc out of it. Finally got it to the point it would hit on 1 cylinder then 2 and then got it to where it would sort of run. Kept at it for a couple days and I still have yet to pull the head off or the valve cover even and it is one of the better running tractor I have on the place. So you do not always need to pull the head to get one running well I know I have done at least 20 and have not pull the heads yet

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I think I had/have mouse nests in some important parts of my H. When I pull started it the first time this spring A LOT of straw (burnt and unburnt) came flying out. I ran it around the block and it has stopped doing it. I'll just let it be now!