Another not a IH question, but not luck on other forum

clint s · Jan 30, 2011

I posted this on the Ford forum with no replies maybe someone here can help.

I am assuming my Farm Trac 555DTC is the same or very similar to the 3620 Ford. The bolts in my pinion bearing carrier came out and wrecked the pinion bearing and pinion shaft and and gear. After waiting months for parts I am ready to put it back together. Do I just slap it back together or do I have to shim it like a car rear. I see nothing in the parts breakdown for adjustment/shimming. Am I correct in assuming that because it is a low RPM rear I just put everything back together the way it comes apart.
I am replacing part #5 on page 5 the pinion shaft and gear.
My tractor uses the 32,33,34,35 set up and the only "thrust" washer I see is 33 and that between the transmission side

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/yhst-97092812362812/parts545-555v3.pdf

Janicholson · Jan 30, 2011

All differentials, both Hypoid and bevel gear (like in yours) require shimming or adjuster movement to make the pattern correct. Failure to do so will have a 5% chance of being even close. The only way putting it back together the same would be if every component was the old component and they were meshed correctly to begin with. If you are not the person to do the tooth pattern reading and adjustment Find a volunteer that does. Buy frosty Malted beverages and watch the process. It needs Dial indicators and possibly calipers, Prussian blue, spring scales as well as original specifications. Jim

clint s · Jan 30, 2011

I thought so too, but as far as I can see according to the parts break down there are no shims you can buy for any adjustment. There were no shims at all during disassembly.

Jim Becker · Jan 30, 2011

Look on page 10. Are those the shims you are looking for?

clint s · Jan 30, 2011

#6 ?? Would that go between the ring gear and the differential??? If so why is it on this page and not page 5.
#5 Does this shim have anything to do with it. There were a few of these on there.

glennster · Jan 30, 2011

see if you have a hot rod race shop in your area and have a chat with them. the chassis shop i use gets shims from mcmaster carr. he does a lot of exotic differential fabrications.

clint s · Jan 30, 2011

Look closer #6 on page 10 appears to be the shim between the brake housing and the trumpet tube. It is on the wrong spot on the illustration. There are 2 shims on my tractor in this spot.

clint s · Jan 30, 2011

Above should have said looking closer not look. Do not want to come off as an a$$ like that sounded. Edit function is broke.

Jim Becker · Jan 30, 2011

The sum total of what I know about that tractor is what I can see in the parts breakdown. I was looking at the diagrams, trying to find what holds the outer race of the roller bearings (1 and 26 on page 5). That was what led me to page 10. Maybe I should have looked at the brake section, but I saw no shims there. Shimming whatever holds those bearings should set both the bearing preload and the depth of mesh of the ring gear. If the 2 shims on your tractor change the location of the brake housing, that is probably half of your answer.

clint s · Jan 30, 2011

I really, really appreciate any help anyone can give. 1 and 26 are enclosed in the differential and were not disassembled. Really only dealing with part 5 and 14 -17. Moving the brake housing or trumpet would affect the differential in one direction, but not the depth of the pinion on the ring gear. I know is is very difficult give a good opinion over the internet. I will have to talk to the dealer I bought the tractor off from. Farm trac is no longer in business, but he has been helping me along. Again any and all help is appreciated. You guys on here have helped me with my 200 alot.

Jim Becker · Jan 30, 2011

I think Montana Tractor bought up some of the left-over Farmtrac assets. If you have a Montana dealer nearby, they may be able and willing to provide some help.

Wardner · Jan 31, 2011

Edit feature ain't broke. It's been restored.

Wardner · Jan 31, 2011

Looks like you are right. "Edit" has been disabled. It was working a couple of days ago after this site went to a new server. Doubt if they will ever pull it out of the scrap pile now.

Speaking of scrap, management needs to send either "classic" or "modern" to the pile.

rustyfarmall · Jan 31, 2011

(quoted from post at 23:18:07 01/30/11) Looks like you are right. "Edit" has been disabled. It was working a couple of days ago after this site went to a new server. Doubt if they will ever pull it out of the scrap pile now.

Speaking of scrap, management needs to send either "classic" or "modern" to the pile.

Agreed. My vote is to send "classic" to the scrap heap.

IH fan · Jan 31, 2011

Speaking of scrap, management needs to send either "classic" or "modern" to the pile.

Agreed. My vote is to send "classic" to the scrap heap.[/quote]

Amen!! And I need edit activated all the time because I can never see my mistakes until after I post :x .

NDS · Jan 31, 2011

Why not let them both run but keep seperate.

clint s · Jan 31, 2011

Agreed I prefer the modern view also it keeps the posts on order better.

Back to the question though. I am thinking it is adjusted by the shims on the rear end trumpets, as the races for the diff sit in them. Adding shims to one side and taking from the other would move the races one way or the other moving the ring gear.

f20inmi · Jan 31, 2011

You need to do several things.
1. The diff bearings (I am assuming they are tapered roller bearings) need to be set to the proper rolling drag.
2. The ring gear needs to be set to the proper location left to right. In some cases, numbers are stamped in the gears and diff case which will allow you make a calculation for the proper ring and pinion gear location.
3. The pinion bearings need to be set to the proper rolling drag. Again assuming they are tapered roller bearings.
4. The pinion needs to be shimmed to the proper fore aft position to give the proper pattern and lash.
You will need a manual to get the bearing pre-load numbers, pattern location (it should be near the heel), and lash.
Some mfrs use threaded quills to simplify the adjustment process. If yours are shimmed, it will take some time to get it right. Might want to consider paying the money to have set by someone with experience and tools.

clint s · Jan 31, 2011

I can set the rolling bearing preload. The issue on the fore aft and left right is that there are no shims available in the parts break down (except for the trumpet to housing and brake housing to trumpet) so I cannot order any. There were no shims anywhere on disassembly

I will be buying the manual and visiting the dealer that I bought the tractor from this weekend maybe he can hel. Friends FIL has the tools and know how so I will talk to him

clint s · Feb 1, 2011

Well here is an update since I bought the service manual. There is no mention or spec for backlash of the gears. It goes through the process of setting bearing preloads ect. Gives specs for those. Here is the the only thing is says on the gear backlash:

NOTE: It is advisable always to check on reassembly that the differential ring gear can be turned by hand and that backlash exists between the drive pinion and differential ring gear. Excessive pre loading or end float conditions are both detrimental to the life of taper roller and pilot bearings.

I will talk to the dealer monday, so I really don't know.

Janicholson · Feb 2, 2011

.004 to .006" of circumfrential rotation (measured at the outer edge of the ring gear, tangent to the edge) will be a good guess.
The gear (assuming it is either a spiral bevel, or straight cut bevel) will be fine if it has full length tooth contact, and a wipe pattern that is consistent along the tooth drive face.
Pinion preload is another guess it should resist turning by hand, and stop when trying to spin it.
It should not be so tight that you cannot turn it by hand on the pinion gear. Jim

clint s · Feb 2, 2011

(quoted from post at 08:44:59 02/02/11) .004 to .006" of circumfrential rotation (measured at the outer edge of the ring gear, tangent to the edge) will be a good guess.
The gear (assuming it is either a spiral bevel, or straight cut bevel) will be fine if it has full length tooth contact, and a wipe pattern that is consistent along the tooth drive face.
Pinion preload is another guess it should resist turning by hand, and stop when trying to spin it.
It should not be so tight that you cannot turn it by hand on the pinion gear. Jim

They gave a spec for pinion preload and I got that set. I will still check the backlash with grease to make sure. There is no way to measure the backlash with a feeler gauge as once you put everything together there is only about a 2 inch by 2 inch window you can see the rig gear through and the pinon gear is out of sight.

This is why this is a great forum. I got one reply on the Ford forum about this.
Clint

clint s · Mar 27, 2011

Well wanted to reply. I checked the gears with the grease and everything looked great. I have finally gotten the thing back together and all the little bits and pieces installed. Filled it up with fluid and drove it around a bit. Everything sounds good and so far no leaks and all the hydraulics work. The best thing is I only had 4 washers of various size left over and these were probable replaced with ones lying on the bench.

Another not a IH question, but not luck on other forum

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