Clutch Adjusting...

So, to answer your question I have adjusted it so that I am at the end of the rod and if I back it out any more I'd need to look for a thinner nut or get it to hang on by just a thread.

I assumed that because I was at the end of the adjustment rod that it was time to replace the clutch, so I'm suprised to hear that the clutch wear goes in the opposite direction. I will do the pilot bushing test in the morning and I will look to see if anything is bent as well. Though, I'm not sure I'll be able to recognize normal from bent. Here are some more symptoms: when I step on the clutch I have to step WAY down on the pedal. I initially though that I needed to give it some time to let it spin down so I tried holding the pedal down for 5-6 seconds but no luck. As I held the pedal down and waited I tried to select a gear several times over the course of ten second and the gnashing gear sound didn't change across the ten seconds. That lead me to think that it wasn't a throwout or pilot bushing but was a linkage issue. when I press the clutch pedal way down to the very end on its travel, then it engages. But, twice while doing that I heard a grinding noise. I could "feel the noise" in the clutch pedal too. That has happened twice in about 150 times pressing the clutch.

Any thoughts?

I have the same problem with my 656 and i find sometimes you have to bring the engine to an idle and push the clutch down all the way if you dont want to grind the gears a little.

It's sounding more like a bent fork all the time. Though it may still be a very worn down graphite type bearing causing too much clearance.

The fork is nothing but a flat-sided wishbone affair, that holds the carrier for your throwout bearing. The wide side of the wishbone is hinged at the top on a dowel-type pin that drives through the torque tube, near the top and toward the rear of the bell. (Just for kicks, you should measure the depth of that pin on both sides of the tractor and make sure it is centered up, i.e. at the same depth on each side -- it just taps back and forth on a tension fit.) The bottom, narrow, end is where the adjustment rod engages to swing the fork forward, pressing the bearing onto the clutch fingers. The carrier and bearing are between the two, in the wide part of the fork.

If the fork is bent, it will usually bow toward the rear of the tractor, which means to get the right freeplay at the center, where the bearing is, that the narrow end where the rod connects is further forward than it should be. By the time you're running out of adjustment room on the rod, you're also pushing the rod forward into spaces it was never meant to go. I once had one so bad that the rod extended forward enough that it was hitting the heads of the adjusting bolts on the clutch fingers as the motor turned. That would make for a very definite bumping that can be felt in the pedal.

You can get an eyeball on the fork. I'd remove the half moon cover on the bottom of the front of the torque tube just to help get some light in there. You can see the left side of it from the round access hole that you'd normall use to get a grease gun in to the bearing. It's awkward, but you should be able to see the right side by looking up and a little to the rear through the hand hole on the bottom.

As for what you're looking for . . . It's a flat sided wishbone, made of flat metal stock, maybe 5/8" or 3/4" wide and about 1/8" thick. If placed on a tabletop, it should lay flat. If it looks to be seriously bowed, sometimes they can be slavaged, but it is generally better to replace them as they generallly have lost their strength and straightening them will only weaken them further. CaseIHNHFord still stocks them.

And while you're looking around, try to eyeball the clearance between the face of your bearing and the clutch fingers. That would be useful information, especially if your fork appears to be reasonably straight. It should be just about 1/2".

And only because we all sometimes overlook the obvious and nobody else has asked, has anyone done any any clutch work on the tractor recently?

Eric, here's the premise as Scotty described, and indeed my fork was bent forward about this much on my SA.





Where do you hear that "grinding noise" coming from?

That fork is supposed to be straight up and down. In a worse-case scenario, bent forward even more, that bottom front tip of the 'handle' of the fork, that part that moves forward when the pedal is depressed, could be hitting the spinning pressure plate assembly, causing the 'grinding' noise in the bell housing.
AND thus necessarily pulling even MORE of the clutch rod forward to make the adjustment.
If you got someone on the tractor to push the clutch pedal down, (motor off) and THEN you stuck your hand in the hand-hole, (so your fingers don't get mashed), you may be able to feel if the bottom of the fork is hitting the pressure plate.

That fork is not the most solid piece of metal, and I could see how it would get bent if, once the throwout bearing was bottomed on the clutch fingers, a previous owner with a heavy foot had tried to press it down even harder.

"I assumed that because I was at the end of the adjustment rod that it was time to replace the clutch, so I"m suprised to hear that the clutch wear goes in the opposite direction."

I hadn"t thought intuitively about this either, until Scotty mentioned it. As the clutch disc thins, and the pressure plate moves more forward, the clutch fingers move more rearward, REDUCING the clearance, giving you MORE rod where it adjusts.

Morning, Pete. You say "intuitively" and I LOL. I have to stop and think every time.

It's also like when I describe the fork for the throw out bearing as tending to bow rearward. The bow is to the rear bacuase the end bent forward, but how do you describe that to make it clear???

And by the bye, you are THE MAN for your pics and illustrations to help clear up the confusion that can result from the verbal descriptions! I suspect they've helped a lot of folks, and wanted to be sure somebody said thank you for that.

Eric: I have seen the fork that Pete shows in his diagram and photo, bend enough so bottom end and linkage to pedal hits the pressure plate before the clutch releases. Yes, and this happened with a new release bearing. It happened the last time I put a new clutch assembly in my 130.

I'm after forgetting whether I had to split the tractor or not. I almost think you can remove that fork without splitting the tractor. Drive the pivot pin through torque tube out, unhook linkage to pedal. I think you can move the fork under the release bearing and out the bottom inspection hole. It's not easy but with a bit of manuvering I think it will come. I may have split the tractor, can't remember. You can always try. I know I straightened fork close to it's original shape, then beefed it up with some small bar and welding. That was 2001 and it's still going.

The more I think about this, I did it without splitting tractor. I say this as I remember being on my knees, left hand up through inspection hole positioning the fork, looking to see what I was doing through hole in torque tube for greasing release bearing and tapping pivot pin in with small hammer at same time. Not having a third hand I remember hooking the trouble light into pressure plate. Don't ask how many 4 letter words I uttered in the process.

Hugh, do you remember if there were cotter pins in that pivot pin, before he tries to drive it out?
I don't see them in my picture, but maybe I wasn't quite finished yet, and I can't EXACTLY recall, but I think there's something that prevents that pivot pin from working it's way out one side or the other on the torque tube.

Scotty, thanks!
I got a huge amount of help here when I did my SA, and I want to 'give back'. (And it is in YOUR best tradition.)

I'll say it again- in my opinion, you and Hugh 'walk on water', and when you guys weigh in with your opinions on things on my SA that I have yet to tackle, I print them out and tuck them away in my service manual.

And I sincerely appreciate the 'nod'. It is the highest praise I can imagine!

Their are thick washers that serve as keys in the shaft to prevent the throw-out actuator from turning on the shaft. Remove the bolts and remove the washers and it should come out easily.

My guess is a bad throw-out beating. Drop the pump and find out for sure. You can replace everything except the flywheel without splitting the tractor.
To reinstall the pump, use long threaded rods and let the threads do the lifting while you guide it into place.

You're throwing us a curve-ball, Dean. You talking about a Super-A?

Yes, there are two cotter pins holding that dowel, one at each end, just inside the fork. You can see the holes for them in your pic in this thread.

The bottom of the fork looks like it is deflected forward a bit. I just gave it a quick look so I didn't see how much, but it is definately angled forward.

Just to make sure I have the proceedure understood before I begin, first I pull the starter to get at the upper pin. Then I drive out the upper pin. Next I pull the lower pin. (How do I get at the lower pin? and how does it come out? there is no cotter pin on it. Do I drive it out like the upper pin? Maybe I undo the linkage at the transmission and push the rod forward to get the lower pin to flop down into the hand hole? It would be great if it were attached with a cotter pin I just don't think I can drive it out b/c the angle is too much from the grease access hole...) Then I remove the fork. Replace or repair the fork. Then I return the fork. (Do I attach the upper pin first?) reattach bottom pin a the while stringing together four letter words in new, creative ways...

Are there any things to watch out for while doing it? Did I get the order right? Also, I've never ordered parts through the case IH website. Any tricks to that?

I checked the clearance for the throwout bearing and it looks to be about 1/2 inch, maybe a little more.

BTW, thanks to you all!

Bingo! Now we're cookin'.

I've never done it in the way Hugh described, but here's what I can think of in the way of being helpful.

For tools, stout long hooks for grabbing cotter pins and long needle-nose pliers (both straight and 45*) for putting them back will most certainly help.

First thing I'd do is unhook the return spring between your clutch pedal and the underside of your seat platform. If you need to completely remove the connecting rod at the rear adjustment to get the slack you need, that's fine too (You can do it by removing the rear nut.), but I'd suggest tying a long piece of twine to the rod just ahead of the forward nut and let it dangle out the rear hole so you can get the rod back, and tie the rear nut onto the end of it as an weight.

There should be two fairly large cotter pins just inside the top of the fork holding that upper pin/dowel in place. In my experience, they aren't usually spread too wide so you might be able to just pull them out with a stout hook, but they may require some minor bending with a long screwdriver or prybar to straighten them a little. I hadn't thought of trying to get at them through the starter hole but that might work or at least be helpful and get more light in there. Once those are out, you can drive the upper pin out from the hole on either side.

The bottom pin, at the front of the rod, should have a 1/8" cotter pin in it. With the rod free at the rear, you should be able to finagle it close enough to the hand hole to get at it. Then there's the matter of the pin, which will almost surely be a bear, with grooves worn into it from use that will make it a bustard to get out. Do what works for that. With the rod disconnected at the rear, you might be able to cant it enough to get it right into the handhole where you can get something onto it, even if just pliers, to press it through and get it out. At that point, the bearing carrier should be floating along the length of the driveshaft.

There may be some trick, or it may not require any trick at all, to slipping the fork down and out through the hole (hand hole or starter hole, who cares?!?!?)

Repair or replace as indicated.

As for reinstallation, I'd think reverse order, with the top pin going in second, before reconnecting the bottom. If it works better to reverse that order, so be it. Reconnecting the rod at the rear and the pedal return spring, in that order, would be the final steps in either case. Readjust the freeplay once everything is hooked back up and see how she goes.

And, yes. Verbal lubrication is acceptable, and often makes the difference in whether things go together or not. One of my more fun experiences was helping a preacher with the clutch on his M. The parts in that case were more readily accessible but still quite stubborn. I watched my tongue for a while but at some point something slipped out. It wasn't long before the preacher was offering "encouraging" words, too, though not quite as colorfully as I.

Good luck and let us know how you're making out.

Pete: The more I think about this, I must have split the tractor. Yes I do remember the cotter pins. However I also remember not getting the fork the exact shape as new, thus the collar that holds release bearing turned a 1/4 turn on me. My fishing expedition up in there by hand was to get release bearing carrier back in place. That happened to me twice while plowing snow. I cured that problem by reducing clutch pedal free travel to bare minamum. I adjusted it not by pedal on platform, but rather feeler gauge between pressure plate fingers and release bearing. That was winter of 01-02, and knock on wood it stayed ever since. I am quite particular about that clutch adjustment at least once per year.

I plow snow with my 130 and this is why I'm always against doing shuttle work with Farmalls, big and small. The clutches and shift levers were never designed for all that shifting. Cockshutt had much better clutches and transmissions for loader and other shuttle work.

You think about it, probably one shifts gears 50 times on shuttle work for every shift on field work. I've growled about that one since the early 80s, all these clowns wanting to put loaders on a Farmall, destroyed the best field work tractor known to man.

Scotty: I like that terminology, VERBAL LUBRICATION", must remember that. I must admit, I once found myself in a similar situation working alongside a member of the clergy.

Read my most recent responce to Pete, I'm not 100% certain I did this without splitting the tractor.

That 2001 clutch assembly replacement in my 130 is an event I'd just as soon forget. I had everything necessary of the tractor for the actual split when 3 friends walked in and proceeded to help. As I recall 2 hours later the tractor was back together same point as when the guys walked in. After they left I tried to get clutch adjustment, no way.

I went to lunch and returned to split the tractor again only to find clutch disc in backwards. I think depressing the clutch pedal with disc in backwards is what actually bent the fork. When I removed the old clutch disc, I placed it in front of blocking under clutch housing, facing the proper direction. I went out to my truck for the new assembly. I later learned one of my friends picked up the old clutch disc and examined it. He must have put it down the opposite way and I went by that. There is something to be said for working alone on these projects, parking one's posterior on a 5 gallon oil can, long enough to make sure no mistakes have been made.

I know now that I straightened that fork on that second split that night. I didn't get the fork exactly right, thus release bearing carrier turned a 1/4 turn on me twice. The fishing through hole was getting release bearing carrier back in place It has stayed as long as I keep pedal free travel to bare minamum.

of Hugh's two new posts below. I expect you're gonna have to split the tractor behind the motor to get this fixed, which was kinda my original supposition. All the tips will apply and the work will go much faster once you're in there. No harm in tryin' from the outside, but the biggest obstacle I think would be getting the clearance to get the fork down off the carrier, at which point you'll likely wind up having to split it anyway. Not a nasty project, just more work and requires some care so that nothing falls.

You are Right! I thought we were talking about a M. Ignore my suggestions -- most people, including my wife, do.