450 Farmall power steering

Chris NW Ind · Feb 8, 2009

Got this problem that is baffling me. The power steering on my 450 refuses to work unless I operate any of the 3 valves. Then it is perfect. It seems that by operating a valve, I'm dead-heading the system and building-up full pressure which is allowing the PS to function.

I've had most of the regulator/priority valve apart on the tractor. Nothing is stuck, all o-rings are new. The only I didn't check yet, and will tommorrow, is the PS safety valve and spring.

Any thoughts?

Thanks, Chris B.

Anonymous-0 · Feb 8, 2009

The priority flow control spool valve is leaking. It can most of the time be fixed by installing a new spool which is still available from CaseIH. Some times the bore is worn too much though and spool alone will not solve problem. I am assuming no one has had this unit apart and left out the plug inside that blocks flow from regulator valve assembly to the touch control valves before it is exposed to the priority valve. .

Chris NW Ind · Feb 8, 2009

Hmm.. I don't like that. The spool valve did have some noticable wear, but I didn't check the fit minus the o-ring. Regarding this plug you mention, where is it located? Between the valve and the big support casting? I had it off the tractor last year, replaced it how I took it off with new o-rings.

Chris B.

Chris NW Ind · Feb 8, 2009

I will add that when the 450 is moving the power steering almost feels OK. But when standing still or moving very slowly, it is nearly non-functional--cranking the steering wheel will move the wheels only a bit before considerable effort is required. If I was to lean on the steering wheel I do believe it loads up the engine some.

Then again, when I hit a hyd. lever it all works perfectly.

Chris B.

Redrider · Feb 8, 2009

My first question is did the tractor come from the factory with power steering? If it did not then it sounds to me like there is something missing in the installation. First let me explan how the factory power steering works. The pressure regulator and the first hydratouch valve is different than a tractor without power steering. There also is a plug to block hydraulic flow into that first hydratouch valve. The regulator has a bypass tube going to the bottom of the first valve which supplies hydraulic flow to all three hydratouch valves. This is done to give the power steering priority over the hydratouch valves. The reason the powersteering works when you pull a valve lever is there is no place for the pressure to go and is forces through the power steering unit.
I hope this answers your question.
RR

Chris NW Ind · Feb 8, 2009

I did some digging thru my parts catalog and found that plug between the first valve and the big casting. I'll check for that tomorrow. If that doesn't pan out, I'll have to conclude that the priority valve is plumb wore out. Then I need to figure out how to tie in an aftermarket priority valve.

As far as I know the power steering is factory. All the piping is there, including the bypass to the 1st valve.

We'll see what tomorrow brings.

Chris B.

Anonymous-0 · Feb 8, 2009

It is real simple to pull the flow divider spool out and I sure would do that before tearing other things apart. I predict you will see wear on the land. I have put in many over the years and two in the last four years. Parts catalog may say no longer available but a good parts man will find one. It was a real blessing when IH made this part available seperatly many years ago.

Anonymous-0 · Feb 8, 2009

Note, there is no o-ring on the flow divider spool valve, it may appear like a groove is made for one but there is not. .

Chris NW Ind · Feb 8, 2009

I did see considerable wear on the spool. Can't wait to see what something like that costs. Assuming I can fix the valve, are there any other parts worth replacing?

Chris B.

MIKE FRENCH · Feb 9, 2009

Call Steel Wheel Ranch, they can get you the correct parts to fix your problem factory valve or aftermarket, they are the experts on these.

armand tatro · Feb 9, 2009

Why not instal a seperate belt-driven P.S.pump (I think some used pumps from a chevy pickup?) for the power steering. This pump would have its own oil supply and is driven from a extra pulley on the front of the crankshaft. You didn't say whether you have a charlyn or a behlen P.S. but it will work either way. Also I think both of these P.S. options had their own belt-driven pumps but the chevy pump would be the cheapest. Armand

Chris NW Ind · Feb 9, 2009

My friend has a 400 w/PS that hasn't run in 8 or so years. I'm going to steal the spool valve off of that and see what happens. All the sheet metal is long gone so it'll be an easy swap.

Chris B.

Chris NW Ind · Feb 9, 2009

You know, if I had to do that, my Super M has the extra PS pulley the previous owner never bothered to remove from the crankshaft. My 450 has the factory Behlen pump.

The extra pump would probably be slicker than a priority valve. What Chevy pump?

Chris B.

Chester5731 · Feb 9, 2009

My 450 did the same thing.I had to take out the priority valve and drill the hole in the end to 1/8 of an inch. This allows more oil flow to the steering. It may slow up the fast hitch or remote cylinder but it won"t be very noticable. Now I can steer mine with one finger setting still. Good luck.

Chris NW Ind · Feb 9, 2009

What if I did choose to go the route of installing the extra pump? What would I need to do to the flow valve? If I were to just block of the pressure port would it come back to bite me later?

Chris B.

Anonymous-0 · Feb 9, 2009

I have drilled the hole on some also, it does help. As far as another pump, that will do the trick also. I would plug the outlet to power steering, remove the flow control spool and see how it acts, I don't have a flow chart in front of me but I am thinking it would work ok. Might bring the power steering relief valve into play though so don't know for sure. One thing for sure, you can pick your advice on this forum.

bc · Feb 9, 2009

Hi guys. How does the flow divider spool come out? How do you tell if it has too much slop in it?

My 2606 has a flow divider valve. In between the inlet at the top and the bypass outlet at the bottom is an adjustment screw. Seems like last year I've had the plug that the adjustment screw out but no spool came out with it unless there is a keeper or it needs needle nose pliers to grab it.

Does it have a hole that can be drilled out?

The 2606 has the same power steering system that shows up in the caseih parts catalog for the 656. It also has the power steering pilot valve attached to it. The pilot valve directs fluid to the steering or it bypasses to the oil cooler. The pilot valve has a spool also but no part number for it.

I've just always had limited steering. I even switched pumps going to the top of the flow divider valve without much help in the steering and then I couldn't pick up the loader bucket.

Thanks.

Anonymous-0 · Feb 9, 2009

bc the 2606 does use the same flow divider as a 656 I see. In that valve the orfice is not in the spool but is a seperate disc pressed into the casting, on the end of valve where the two large lines come in ,it is under the middle smaller plug. Haven't seen any of these type spools wear much at all , have had some of the disc's come out , bust up etc. That usually causes a different type of problem though as all the pump supply then goes to power steering causing lines to vibrate , noise, break etc. The valve on the other end, relief valve does have an adj screw but is factory staked. Could work loose and cause low pressure, or o-ring on bottom end of valve could be bad. One other thing, some of the 656 tractors had a T screw in that center fitting, the idea was to screw that in making cold starting easier. That was somebody's day dream I guess. but if you did have that on your valve you would want to be sure it was not screwed in part way. What one needs of course is a inline flow rater to check flow and pressure but am sure that is not an option so you just have to keep trying different things and picking people's brains.

bc · Feb 9, 2009

Thanks Pete, It's a year old problem when I got it. But I spotted you and 2 others on this thread who have some expertise with power steering I haven't dealt with before.

Probably a new pump would fix it but those things are expensive and hard to find. Hate to spend a bunch of bucks and find out it is something else. Mine has the T screw valve you are talking about but wide open doesn't really help the flow. I rebuilt the steering cylinder which helped a little. Where is this relief valve you are talking about that may have a bad oring? Is this on the other end opposite the T screw?

To road it to town to a dealer and get it flow rated is probably out of the question. I can remove a line or two and get it to spit and dribble into a bucket to get an idea of the flow.

There are a couple check balls in the pilot valve that I've had out and found no blockage. They are a burger to get back in. It has some type of spool and check valve to bypass flow to the oil cooler. Maybe I could block off the oil cooler and see what happens. This would assume the excess would bypass in the flow divider. I don't run it enough to need a cooler anyway.

Chris NW Ind · Feb 9, 2009

Did some checking and swapping on my steering valve. First, my spool orifice was already drilled out and well past 1/8", maybe to 3/16". It was also quite loose in the bore around .030-.040 wear visually. I borrowed the spool out of a 400 which had considerably less wear and an original diameter orifice, but I still noticed looseness in the bore. I drilled it out slightly to 1/8" with not much improvement.

When I turn the wheel I feel the valve cranking out some flow, just not nearly enough. And there is a difference in turning the wheel with the engine off versus the engine running.

Anyway, I put a call into Steel Wheel Ranch and they will sell me a rebuilt and guaranteed priority valve. I think I'll go this route.

Chris B.

Anonymous-0 · Feb 9, 2009

bc , don't quite know where to send you from here. Does the other hydraulics work ok or aren't you using any like loader etc.If your aux valves work ok pump is not problem. Hitch has seperate pump riding piggy back on main pump. I am going to assume you have checked filter and fluid levels, is system noisy. I would put the two lines that go into steering cyl into a bucket and you should get about 3 gal flow per min when turned in each direction. You could have bad relief valve, (located opposite end of the T screw) or even a steering valve that is blocked as there is a plastic check valve in there, or maybe the spool in steering valve doesn't move.It is mounted right on the flow divider valve assembly with lines going to steering cyl. Now I have you totally confused. Good luck.

bc · Feb 9, 2009

Thanks Pete. No you didn't confuse me. The IH 3000 loader and backhoe work fine. No hitch. Plenty of hydraulics there. I just want to eliminate the flow divider and the pilot valve before buying a pump. The steering valve/hand pump works ok and works manually as well. If that is a relief valve behind the flow divider, then I'll try to pull it out assuming there is room to get to it. There isn't much room to work on it. Might be a spring project to pull it and the pilot valve out and go through them. I suppose there could be a busted spring, oring, or something.

I've pulled the main line from the pump to the top of the flow divider and it definitely puts out the fluid.

I thought I fixed it last fall when I found a piece of metal (maybe a piece of broken spring) under the check ball of the relief valve located in the empty draft control housing. But that just helped a little bit. Put it in a vise to compress the ball and the metal piece fell back into the relief valve.

Thanks and I didn't mean to hijack this thread but some of these hydraulic issues are similar.

450 Farmall power steering

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