smallest tractor for hay making

Hi Everyone, I need your opinions, I need to get a tractor to cut and bale hay. what is the smallest IH I could use. i have an IH sickle, 46 IH baler older side delivery rake. also how long ago did they start putting safety features on the tractors? I grew up with a cub, and it was fine for Grandaddy's spread. I drove an IH 400 with no fenders on it and it was just way to much of a "raw machine" as my hubby put it. Any suggestions? if I could get the 400 for $1000 would that be good? it looks real rough, but I think I can trust the guy that has it. oh and it has the extra power thing, I can't remember what it is called. something about not having to turn the tractor off if it gets jammed with grass. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated, thanks, Becky

Becky, A 400 Farmall is a good tractor. GET yourself a operators manuel, it has a live PTO, these things will kill you if you do not heed the warnings.Farming is a blast but there are a million things that will hurt you so pay attention and educate yourself so you don't hurt yourself or anyone else. A 400 will handle what you want to do.

If you don't like the looks of the "raw" 400, get a more modern one. The fenders are mostly useless, and get in the way during mounting/dismounting. To me your post indicates that you had better get a tractor that you mount from the front, in case you forget to shut off the PTO. That shaft will rap you up like you weren't there, unless it is fully enclosed.

The smallerst I would say would be a C , but a 350 would work great. A little smaller than the 400. Some may disagree, but we baled with a C and a 45 baler. Had a neighbor who used a 340 Utility also with a 46. Worked great and it had live pto.

(quoted from post at 16:51:00 07/06/08) Becky, A 400 Farmall is a good tractor. GET yourself a operators manuel, it has a live PTO, these things will kill you if you do not heed the warnings.Farming is a blast but there are a million things that will hurt you so pay attention and educate yourself so you don't hurt yourself or anyone else. A 400 will handle what you want to do.

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Farming is about the second most dangerous profession - right after lion taming - mostly because of moving apparatus on, or attached to, tractors. mike

Becky: 50% of the hay of all time ever baled into small square bales was done with 30 horsepower or less. A good used tractor will cost you $100. per horsepower. Anything less will need a lot of work, and unless your mechanical inclined it will be pure grief.

Having said that, don't assume your going to get a perfect tractor just because you pay $3,000 for a 30 hp tractor. Either your or someone you select must decide your getting value for money.

CNKS has the best suggestions, 35 hp utility type tractor newer than 1963, with live PTO and 3 point hitch.

Becky,

Just a quick safety note. Always shut the tractor off before performing service on any implement or the tractor itself. The couple of seconds it takes to shut it down and restart might just save your life and/or limbs. There are too many moving parts, sharp things, and pinch points. Be smart...stay safe!

Round bales or square? I use a Farmall 504 Diesel to bale 4'x5' bales(800-1000 lbs) with a Vermeer 504C. I have used a MF 135 Diesel on the same baler and also a NH square baler (245? Hayliner). A 5' disk mower is fine with a 45-50 hp tractor, a 7' requires more as will larger balers. As for the side delevery, an 8N will pull it.

Live PTO, 3-point, and power steering would be my reqirements as a minimum. A TA or two range transmission is a definate plus. Diesels use less fuel per HP than gas and eliminates the carb and ignition to maintain.

Good luck.

Charles

Even if you can't find a tractor with a 3-point, you will get along O.K. You really need a live PTO for baling. Everyone is right about the safety issues, but using common sense you won't have any problems. People get in a rush to get something done, & forget safety parameters. As far as having fenders on a tractor for safety, we farmed our whole lives without fenders, & are still alive---again --common sense.

You aren't going to get much of a 400 for $1000, unless the seller is a complete fool. You'll be buying this guy's problems. By the time you're done you'll have to put another $3000-$4000 in parts and labor into the tractor to make it work, and it'll still look "rough."

You are on the right track as far as features go, though. The 300/400 series tractors are the oldest you should be considering for this work. Live PTO, live hydraulics, and Torque Amplifier make baling easy.

Trying to use an older tractor with none of these features to bale requires an EXPERIENCED operator. It's truly an art form, because every time you push the clutch on an older tractor, everything STOPS. The PTO stops. The hydraulics stop. If you stop wrong, you plug the baler.

What is your land like? Flat ground, you only need about 30-35HP, a 300 or 350 will do the job. Hilly ground, and you really should consider a heavier tractor like a 400.

Are you dumping the bales on the ground with the baler, or towing a wagon? Upsize to a 400 on flat ground if you're towing a wagon. On hills, you probably should consider something more modern with hydraulic brakes.

If your husband thinks a 400 is too much of a "raw machine" he's going to be disappointed because that's the same basic design for all IH tractors in that size range up through 1981.

You need to be very safety minded when operating the tractor. You can't just jump on and go baling. There are a lot of things going on while baling and if you're not intimately familiar with the tractor, you will break something or get hurt. Do you automatically know what to do if you need to stop NOW? Probably not.

Us farm kids didn't start out running the baler. We started out towing the stone trailer, then graduated to discing, then to raking hay and hauling wagons before baling was even a consideration. It took a few years to build up the skills necessary for a precision operation like baling.

Of course you don't have the luxury of a few years, but do take a few hours to drive the tractor around and get used to it before you go into the field.

I guess A #46 IH baler is much smaller than a New holland 273 because 35 hp sounds very little to be running a baler. Maybe without a wagon 35 hp would do it for a #46. Neighbor had a 1965 Ford 4000 (must've been one of the first with the new paint & sheet metal) on a 273 with a 16 ft. wagon and it could hardly handle it. Even with Grandpas' Massey 165 diesel (52 hp) the same outfit kept the tractor working hard. You've got to figure in, as mentioned, hilly fields, and also if its thick (1st cutting always is) or damp hay. A smaller baler may be be prone to plugging up more in thick hay, especially without enough horsepower, so enough hp is crucial. I would say a 400 Farmall minimum. A 450 would be better. If I remember right the 400 was kind of a replacement of the M and a 450 is an updated 400, so thats really top of the line with that era of tractors. I think someone said 1963 or newer. Not a bad idea. A 544 or 656 would get the job done well (much more expensive that a 400 or 450). There are a number of options if you look at a few other colors too (Massey 165, 175; Oliver 1550, 1650; Allis-Chalmers D-17). Again, more expensive. Depends on the $ you have to work with. $1000 won't buy much. $1500 may buy a good 400 Farmall or a WD-45 Allis in some places. Hope I didn't confuse anybody too bad.

Hi everyone I really appreciate your replies. One thing I wanted to mention is that the rake is a MM on steel, does that make any difference on weight? The land is dead flat, and as for the pulling the wagon I"m not sure. we should be able to pull the wagon alongside with the baby kubota all of 22 horse. The guy also has an m that is in really nice shape I believe it has been restored. Would that be big enough? but it has a narrow front. How hard is it to change that i have heard that these turn over mush easier than a wide front. and I just like the way it looks beter. Ok after the 60"s what models did they make? are they all the sme #"s or are all of the later ones much bigger? I know he also has an 806 which seems much more friendly. as for the color, I"d be disowned by the neighbors especially if it is green!! my friend has one of those too. what would I need to check to have a pretty good idea that the tractor is mostly healthy. While I"m here, i know where there are 3 old IH tractors just sitting there rotting one is on steel where do I look to find a model # is whats printed on the back axle it? I keep telling the kid he at least needs to get them inside. One more question how about a ground driven sickle? if i can get it freed up surely my 22hp kabuta would handle it. Thanks, Becky