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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Hy-Tran Fluid Research (long)

Author 
Jim Allen

09-27-2005 14:23:59
209.173.160.22



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A while back I asked about using Case/IH Hy-Tran vs some of the budget generic fluids, especially Wal Mart Supertech and Tractor Supply Traveller, or some of the products from the well known oil companies. I got product data sheets for as many oils as I could, spoke with one lubrication engineer, several lubrication specialists/experts and some sales guys and several tractor techs. Here are the results of that research.
Basically, the older IH units donít have any super-special requirements that are met ONLY by genuine Hy-Tran. Many good oils meet or exceed the standards set by IHC. While you can buy the genuine stuff in buckets at the Case/IH dealer, the bulk stuff in back MAY NOT be Hy-Tran. It may be better. In the case of my closest dealer, it was actually Mystik JT-5 (a branch of Citgo) and its specs actually exceeded those of genuine Hy-Tran.
Those of you that spoke up against using the cheaper generic fluids are basically right. There is a generic "Farm & Fleet" standard for these types of oils which makes them basically "safe" for the applications listed on the label, but not necessarily desirable over the long term. Itís the old cost versus benefit thing... they arenít going to spend more to sell for less. They may use fewer additives, or cheaper ones, and perhaps a lower quality base oil to keep the costs down. Iím going to do an oil analysis on the Tractor Supply fluid I used (which will basically be a flush oil) at 150 hours and that will tell the tale on the Traveller product.
The big problem I found with regards to the cheaper fluids sold at the box and farm stores is that I couldnít get much info on them. No surprise. The Wal Mart fluid, for example, may be made by one company for three years but then is contracted to another for the next three. The specs will change slightly, even though it wears the same label in the store, but theyíd rather not have you know the particulars. One of those companyís product may be pretty good for the money but the new contractor may not be quite as good and that leads to questions they donít want to answer. It all meets a minimum standard, however.
As to the oil company products, they are most often superior to Hy-Tran. Some of the names that came up as excellent hydraulic transmission fluids (and are more or less list in the order of preference) are Chevron, Shell Donax, Mystik JT-5 and Mobil 424. The Chevron additive products, under Oronite name, are in many of the better fluids and they are very good. John Deereís (dare I speak of the green tractors!)Hy-Gard fluid is reputed to be a top notch fluid, better than Hy-Tran in fact. It ainít cheap, though. There are high-dollar synthetics available as well like Amsoil. They should be great, but not many of us is willing to spend $20/gallon or more.
My thoughts are that you can get a top quality oil that exceeds the Hy-Tran spec for about $6-7 a gallon (less than the $8.00 a gallon for Hy-Tran). Some local prices were $5.87/gal for Mystik JT-5 (bulk), $6.52/gal for Shell Donax (5-gallon pails) and $6.91 for Chevron (5-gal pails). Bottom line, Hy-Trans is great fluid but, IMHO, the markup placed on it at the dealer puts it in a price category above where it should be based on the product. Itís your money, your tractor and your decision.

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Jim Allen

09-28-2005 06:25:42
209.173.160.22



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 Re: Hy-Tran Fluid Research (To Bob) in reply to Jim Allen, 09-27-2005 14:23:59  
Bob: I'm not quite sure why my post inspired such a testy response from you and a barely veiled insult. Well, I guess I'd rather waste my valuable time giving back a little something to a board that has helped me out a lot. You chose to waste yours by flinging insults I didn't do anything to deserve.

Anyway, I just reread my post and yours and I urge you to read mine again carefully. If you do you will realize I was presenting the information I got from interviewing a lubrication engineer and people who deal with lubrication issues on a daily basis. And basically, you will see that we're all pretty close to being in total agreement.

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Farmall450man

09-28-2005 06:16:10
12.44.216.110



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 Re: Hy-Tran Fluid Research (long) in reply to Jim Allen, 09-27-2005 14:23:59  
Jim, thanks for the info. I appreciate the time that you spent and the information that you posted. There's a lot of hype out there about "oils". Some of the marketers would have you believe that thier fluids will never fail or change no matter how you use their products. Good job!



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Bob

09-27-2005 21:43:10
64.21.249.40



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 Re: Hy-Tran Fluid Research (long) in reply to Jim Allen, 09-27-2005 14:23:59  
Can you document ONE single hydraulic failure caused by poor generic oil, that met "spec" for the use?

I don"t think so!

I no longer farm, but I have neighbors that do, and they use generic lubes in $200,000 pieces of machinery, and don"t seem to have any problems.

If it"s good enough for the modern $200,000.00 stuff, it"s good enough for the old junque that most of the posts on this board are about.

If all you have to do is work up a treatise like that on generic oil, you must have far too much time on your hands!

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bermuda ken

09-28-2005 05:53:10
71.98.10.209



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 Re: OEM Oil .....bad?? in reply to Bob, 09-27-2005 21:43:10  
If using the cheaper Brand X oil is better for the $200K machinery user, why does C-IH offer a 10 YEAR warranty when thier filters and oils are used??

I have yet to see Wally World, Shell, Citgo, ect. offer ANYTHING even remotely close to this. If thier oil is so SUPERIOR, why don't they back it up with a warranty????

THINK ABOUT IT!!!



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bermuda ken

09-28-2005 05:51:11
71.98.10.209



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 Re: OEM Oil .....bad?? in reply to Bob, 09-27-2005 21:43:10  
If using the cheaper Brand X oil is better for the $200K machinery user, why does C-IH offer a 10 YEAR warranty when thier filters and oils are used??

I have yet to see Wally World, Shell, Citgo, ect. offer ANYTHING even remotely close to this. If thier oil is so SUPERIOR, why don't back it up with a warranty????

THINK ABOUT IT!!!



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Jay (ND)

09-28-2005 06:47:19
66.231.126.211



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 Re: OEM Oil .....bad?? in reply to bermuda ken, 09-28-2005 05:51:11  
Ken, your a dealer, so I know you've seen this too. A guy that trades every year or two and doesn't grease, doesn't change oil, just adds. (I know a few custom combiners famous for this). You know as well as I do that as long as you keep oil in these beasts, that you can't ruin them in a few hundred or even a thousand hours. Going by the "don"t seem to have any problems" theory it would seem that this is ok, but we all know that while that owner won't likely have any problems, the next guy down the line probably will.

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bermuda ken

09-28-2005 08:10:58
71.98.10.209



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 Re: OIL EXTREME?? in reply to Jay (ND), 09-28-2005 06:47:19  
We sold a Hydro 70 tractor to a customer in 1975. He bought new hyd filters and a pail of Hytran for if every year at open house.

In 1993? the hydro died. Charge pump "went south". The hytran we drained from it was clear as water. Each year he changed filters and added 5 gal of oil, but NEVER drained all of the hyd oil. The Hytran finally just wore out!! After nearly 20 years with just top offs, any hydraulic oil system would do this.

Would it have lasted this long with Brand X oil in it?? I highly doubt it......

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Jay (ND)

09-28-2005 00:36:12
66.231.126.211



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 Re: Hy-Tran Fluid Research (long) in reply to Bob, 09-27-2005 21:43:10  
" and don"t seem to have any problems"
Now there is some good research.

Quite frankly, if I had that $200k equipment, I wouldn't even think twice about the oil. The $20 difference in an oil change would be worth the peace of mind.



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John in Ct

09-27-2005 19:23:02
69.24.45.12



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 Re: Hy-Tran Fluid Research (long) in reply to Jim Allen, 09-27-2005 14:23:59  
What about Ford Ambra?



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CNKS

09-27-2005 18:03:31
204.249.178.138



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 Re: Hy-Tran Fluid Research (long) in reply to Jim Allen, 09-27-2005 14:23:59  
My take on this, without doing any research, is that if you have a letter series with live hydraulics (Super A, C, Stage 2 Super H, Super M, etc, farm store stuff is fine as these systems don't have mudh sophistication. Beginning with the 460, 560, etc, maybe even the 00 and 50 series, use HyTran or an equivalent name brand hydraulic fluid.



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sammy the RED

09-27-2005 15:42:03
216.190.99.27



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 Re: Hy-Tran Fluid Research (short) in reply to Jim Allen, 09-27-2005 14:23:59  
Just buy Hy-Tran+ and be done with it. ;o] .............Oil Spec Range...........

Low End .................................. High End
<-----Wally World-------------------Hy-Tran->



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Super A

09-28-2005 08:36:23
208.1.217.193



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 Re: Hy-Tran Fluid Research (short) in reply to sammy the RED, 09-27-2005 15:42:03  
AMEN!

You spend several thousand bucks to buy the tractor, and at least that much more to restore it. Why scrimp on the oils when you can buy the name brand for a few dollars more and KNOW you have the right stuff? You don't have to buy a 5 gallon bucket full either!

Al



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Jay (ND)

09-27-2005 15:18:31
66.231.126.211



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 Re: Hy-Tran Fluid Research (long) in reply to Jim Allen, 09-27-2005 14:23:59  
Yep - thats pretty much right. Except the JD fluid is also bid, just like the Walmart and Case/IH. Not saying it isn't a quality oil.

2 years ago I know for a fact that they had 3 different manufacturers for their 15w40. 1 did the drums, 1 the pails and a third the quarts.



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justin w

09-27-2005 15:39:11
216.188.207.180



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 Re: Hy-Tran Fluid Research (long) in reply to Jay (ND), 09-27-2005 15:18:31  
IH and Case IH have only used one supplier for HyTran and other oils. This supplier is FL Viscosity Oil Company in Willowbrook, IL. Their website is www.viscosityoil.com.



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Jay (ND)

09-27-2005 16:28:42
66.231.126.211



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 Re: Hy-Tran Fluid Research (long) in reply to justin w, 09-27-2005 15:39:11  
HOG WASH

Call them - I did this leg work last year for a bet and passed on this information here. Viscosity oil is an office of about 6 people. They call around and get bids. There is no refinery. There is no lab. They use several suppliers. Call and check it out. Tell them you want to tour their facilities.



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PAULIH300

09-27-2005 17:04:11
64.12.117.13



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 Re: Hy-Tran Fluid Research (long) in reply to Jay (ND), 09-27-2005 16:28:42  
Many name brand oils are blended by Amalie Oil out of Florida.They do Castrol,and several store brands,to name but a few.They even make their own bottles and labels.



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Jay (ND)

09-27-2005 17:06:22
66.231.126.211



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 Re: Hy-Tran Fluid Research (long) in reply to PAULIH300, 09-27-2005 17:04:11  
Very possible. I couldn't get out of them where any of their product is put together, I just learned that they didn't do it.



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flem

09-28-2005 17:29:07
152.163.101.13



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 Re: Hy-Tran Fluid Research (long) in reply to Jay (ND), 09-27-2005 17:06:22  
I'm not sure about the varoius tractor fluids, I just changed all the fluid in the 2444 and used the TSC traveller premuim, that being said I KNow from my motorcylce experience that many of the name brand premix oils are bottled from one supplier I visited and offered with different brand names all from the same vat.



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