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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

686 IH engine

Author 
BC

07-29-2003 12:49:39
199.141.125.33



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I am looking at buying a 686 International. I was told that they used two different diesel engines in this tractor. A 312 and a 310 german engine. I have been told that the 310 was the better engine. My question is how do I tell if a 686 has the 310 engine or the 312 engine?




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Jimmy King

07-30-2003 05:23:09
63.189.8.161



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 Re: 686 IH engine in reply to BC, 07-29-2003 12:49:39  
I have a 706 and a 756 both with the 310 engine I have no trouble starting either one. On a 10 tooth chisle plow the 756 will use about 4 and 1/2 gal an hr. The parts man at my IH dealer told me either engine was equally good and their was no ryme or reason on which engine the tractor would have.



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TP from Central PA

07-29-2003 19:43:02
205.188.209.140



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 Re: 686 IH engine in reply to BC, 07-29-2003 12:49:39  
I have no experience with a 312, but did spend alot of time on a 756 with a D310.......I love those German Diesels! They have the go power and seem to run all week on a tank of fuel. People swear I am nuts, but I would put that 756 up against either of the 766's with the D360's on the same farm........The 756 seems to be able to hang right in with the 766's and use less fuel doing it. The Germans do start hard, but once you get them going they run like crazy!!!!!!!!! Put a tank heater on it, keep it plugged in when it cools off and you'll like the German Diesel!!!!!!

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Hugh MacKay

07-29-2003 17:07:21
209.226.106.17



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 Re: 686 IH engine in reply to BC, 07-29-2003 12:49:39  
BC: I'd have to side with Aces in this one Give me that good old American built diesel. A lot of people rave about how long those Euorpean diesels will last. Any engine that will not start half the time will last a long time. I know KB is going to come back and shoot me down with hours of service. Well the American engine is all over the German engine on power also.

A local dealer told me that when IH changed the 886 from the American 360 diesel to the German 358, that move did more to kill his business than any of the other hair brained ideas IH came up with. The 15 or so 360 equiped 886's sold a lot of tractors for him. Tractors that for the most part got traded off for Green ones within 5 years. It was not the American 360 that got traded either.

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K.B.

07-29-2003 15:54:58
209.163.43.24



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 Re: 686 IH engine in reply to BC, 07-29-2003 12:49:39  
Very easy to tell the difference. 310 German diesel only has one oil filter, 312 has two oil filters. We had a 686 with the 310 German for about six years, it was the hardest starting tractor I've ever been around. When the temp gets below 45 degrees, you need to plug it in. If it gets below zero, you'll have to leave it plugged in all day, and even then it might not start. Other than that, it was a very exellent tractor. Has plenty of power and it is very agile. If the one you are looking at does have a 310, you can cure the hard-starting problem by overhauling the engine, installing piston and sleeve set for the late 358 German diesel. We have a 786 and a 3088 with the late higher compression 358, the difference in starting between those and the 686 is amazing.

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Chuck

07-29-2003 16:52:21
64.6.15.12



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 Re: Re: 686 IH engine in reply to K.B., 07-29-2003 15:54:58  
how do you magically make 358 components fit a 310?



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K.B.

07-30-2003 16:01:17
209.163.30.24



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 Re: Re: Re: 686 IH engine in reply to Chuck, 07-29-2003 16:52:21  
Chuck, if you knew anything, you wouldn't be asking this. It doesn't take much magic at all. 310 and 358 both have 3.875" bore, so pistons and sleeves are the same, with all 310's and early 358's having 15:1 compression pistons, and late 358's having 16:1 compression pistons. The difference between the two engines is the stroke. Almost EVERYTHING else is the same. Please post back Chuck, I really want to hear what you think about this.

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Chuck

07-31-2003 18:04:09
64.6.15.12



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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 686 IH engine in reply to K.B., 07-30-2003 16:01:17  
K.B. I will apologize for the tone of my question, but not the question itself. As far as whether I know "anything",I am well aware that there is much I don't know, but fairly confident that this one won't pass the test. To make a stroke change usually would involve some combination of piston, rod or crankshaft change to change the distance the piston travels in the cylinder.If you change the pin height of the piston and nothing else, the piston would either come out the top of the cylinder, or it would not reach the top of the sleeve,depending on which way you move the wrist pin in the piston.I do not have a German diesel service manual handy to tell what the change is between 310 & 358. Parts catalog shows different rods,crank and piston numbers but that doesn't really tell us anything useful. The 400 family is very similar to what we are discussing here ALMOST all the same. Bore size is the same, basic block is the same,sleeves are the same,pin height is different because stroke is different. If you were to put 436 pistons in a 414 engine they will fit fine,but they would not reach the top of the sleeve when you turn the engine over. I would think if the conversion to a 358 were as simple as sleeves and pistons no one would ever buy a 310 overhaul package. If I am wrong here someone please explain what I am missing......

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K.B.

07-31-2003 19:53:38
209.163.43.2



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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 686 IH engine in reply to Chuck, 07-31-2003 18:04:09  
You're still not getting it... 358 has a stroke of 5.062 inches. 310 has a stroke somwhere around 4 3/8 inches, I belive. Both have the same block. Since the 358 has a longer stroke, it has shorter connecting rods to keep the piston from going out the top of the cylinder. Go back and read my first post, I said that putting late 358 pistons into a early 358 or a 310 would raise the compression to 16:1, not make a 310 into a 358. I never said anything about making a 310 into a 358. To make a 310 into a 358 you need a 358 crankshaft and connecting rods. Please go check the most recent 686 parts book, it will tell you to use late 358 pistons when you overhaul the engine.

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Hugh MacKay

07-31-2003 19:09:52
216.208.58.189



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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 686 IH engine in reply to Chuck, 07-31-2003 18:04:09  
Your missing the change in crank.



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Aces

07-29-2003 14:47:35
67.0.5.199



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 Re: 686 IH engine in reply to BC, 07-29-2003 12:49:39  
I would have to go the other way the 312 would be the better of the 2 They will start better better seals at bottom of sleves.



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RAS

07-29-2003 14:15:55
148.71.18.81



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 Re: 686 IH engine in reply to BC, 07-29-2003 12:49:39  
On the left side of the engine is the fuel injeciton pump. On the 312 lines come out of the top of the pump going to the injectors. On the 310 they come out of the back of the pump.



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BC

07-29-2003 14:24:32
199.141.125.33



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 Re: Re: 686 IH engine in reply to RAS, 07-29-2003 14:15:55  
Thanks RAS!



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steveormary

07-29-2003 20:17:43
64.70.24.56



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 Re: Re: Re: 686 IH engine in reply to BC, 07-29-2003 14:24:32  
I would go with the 310 German. Had a 706 with the 310. Had a tank heater for cold weather. No starting problems that way.



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