Sleeves and Rings

Bud W · Mar 23, 2009

If you have great oil pressure and no unusual noise in your engine is there any reason its not reasonable to just replace the sleeves and rings while reusing the pistons , pins ans brgs in a SA?

El Toro · Mar 23, 2009

If you're going to tear the engine down I would install a new sleeve kit, bearings and have the head redone. You should have the crankshaft measure for wear at your local auto machine shop to see if it needs to be ground undersize. Get your new bearings from them. You need to clean that area of the block where the sleeve seals are installed of any rust or dirt. If the block is sludged you probably should have it dipped and all the oil passages cleaned. Good time to check the clutch disc too for wear and have it recovered. You don't want to have a problem later
and need to pull it apart again. Hal

rustyfarmall · Mar 23, 2009

(quoted from post at 10:35:46 03/23/09) If you have great oil pressure and no unusual noise in your engine is there any reason its not reasonable to just replace the sleeves and rings while reusing the pistons , pins ans brgs in a SA?

You might get by with it for a year or two, but most likely you will be doing it over again in a very short time. Do it right the first time and it'll be good to go for as long as you are.

mkirsch · Mar 23, 2009

Why are you considering replacing the sleeves and rings if the engine is in such great shape?

Bud W · Mar 23, 2009

I should have mentioned that it is smoking from idle all the way to full throttle. I tried replacing the carb with one off my SC ( which doesn't smoke and is in great shape ) but no luck so I assume it needs rings and possibly vave guides

Bud W · Mar 23, 2009

Well I know that is what those that have the knowledge and splitting stands etc would do because all your adding is the cost of parts. If I go that way I will need to have it done which will double the cost. What I have here is a "show/parade " tractor that might get driven 2 hours per year. I was just thinking I might do what I can do myself which is limited to what can be done without splitting the tractor. I would just like to clear up the exhaust. Sorry I didn't give you more data up front.

spiffy1 · Mar 23, 2009

If you're mostly after clearing up some oil burning, I'd guess the easy answer is to have the head done first (still can eat up $500 real quick, but you're only out a head gasket if you go further later) and leave the rest alone. A set of rings can do well and even better with new sleeves, but either with your own labor or paying someone, that can be good money after bad as easily - though for your usage odds are perhaps in your favor.

Of course I've only done a couple each way (full job or just rings and head) and haven't been burned yet, so my advice is arbitrary compared to those with dozens or hundreds behind them

A local machine shop fellow was telling me a while back he's a bit reluctant doing "parade tractors" [though especially for JD's], because often he'll look at the bore and recommend boring to new pistons or to accept a sleeve, but they don't want to get that kind of money in a parade tractor - resulting often enough in complaints a year or so later.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 23, 2009

If your sleeves are not worn real bad I would do a valve job and re-ring it, done it many times and have yet to regret it. If you get new sleeves get the pistons too. If you hone the old sleeves do so VERY lightly. If the rest of the engine is good, why fix it? If you open it up and everything is about worn out, that's a different story.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 23, 2009

parade tractor huh, either way will probably still leave it smoking as you wont pull it hard enough to seat the rings. may be all it needs now is to pull the snot out of it and get it up to proper operating temp to burn the carbon out of it.

Nebraska Cowman · Mar 23, 2009

If it's running good and not fouling plugs I'd let it smoke. It might get better the more you use it. Otherwise if you are going to overhaul it you might's well go all the way.

Bud W · Mar 23, 2009

Well now that is a new one on me. Unfortunately the only way I would have to make it work for a living is to attempt to pull some trees out of the ground.I think the neighbors would call the police. Your probably correct but thats just not an option. By the way my SC and MV are in the same service but no smoke.

Bud W · Mar 23, 2009

Thats probably exactly what I will do. I was just thinking if I could do some stuff without getting too far out there mechanically it might be fun. A complete rebuild is just not an option unless the tractor becomes undriveable and I don't see that happening. Great oil pressure , no knocks , very mild leaks and doesn't foul plugs. Thanks

spiffy1 · Mar 23, 2009

Not fouling plugs. If not just using as is, to me that is one more point for gambling on just the head in your case.

Even without that information; if there is no way you can arrange for it to get a good work out soon after the new rings [regardless of sleeves/pistons/ect.] there is a good chance they won't seat, so you're better off with the old rings/sleeves/pistons all happy together.

MN Scott · Mar 23, 2009

Do some pricing, I'll bet new sleeve-piston- ring kits will be cheaper than ordering individial sleeves and a ring set. Aluminum pistons wear at the same rate as rings and sleeves, if your sleeves are out of round you can bet your pistons are worn to fit them. Putting old pistons in new sleeves will result in a poorer fit than you have now and worse oil consumption.

teddy52food · Mar 23, 2009

What weight oil are you using? Put in 20w50 or straight 40 or 50 & add a bottle of STP. If you don't run it in extreme cold weather.

Bud W · Mar 23, 2009

Interesting idea. I believe I have either straight 30W or possibly 10W30 in it. Are you thinking the heavier wt oil might not get pass the rings as badly??
Thanks

dwgerth · Mar 24, 2009

What I have done in the past, add some Marvel Mystery oil to the gas and about a quart to the c-case oil until you change. It can do wonders for a motor like yours that does"nt get "worked". Just my 2c"s worth.
dg

mkirsch · Mar 24, 2009

I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner...

Try some SEAFOAM. If this is a tractor that's been sitting around a while, it may be due to stuck rings.

What I did was transfer a can of Seafoam into a recycled spray bottle (I think it was a KABOOM cleaner bottle), and sprayed about half of it into the vacuum port on the intake manifold (the little pipe plug on the side). The tractor was running at half throttle and I was spraying as much as I could without killing the engine. Shut 'er down and let 'er sit for a week. Next week I started it back up and it smoked like a diesel for a while, then stopped. Hasn't smoked a lick since.

Some will tell you that all Seafoam is is gasoline or some other common solvent. I don't care what it is. The technique worked for me.

Sleeves and Rings

Bud W

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El Toro

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rustyfarmall

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mkirsch

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Bud W

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Bud W

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spiffy1

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Anonymous-0

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Nebraska Cowman

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Bud W

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Bud W

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mkirsch

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