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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

460 clutch adjustment

Author 
CNKS

05-23-2007 14:41:12
204.249.178.32



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One problem solved, another appears -- standard procedure. My 460 Hi Utility has a new clutch in it. Adjusted the clutch linkage and TA linkage together to the specs in the IT manual. The engine clutch does not fully disengage, meaning I can't shift gears with the engine running. I can put it in low or reverse with the engine off, let out the clutch and the tractor moves. It also tends to creep with the clutch in. The clutch fingers were preadjusted at the factory. Against my better judgement, I started messing with them, with no results. I kept track of the amount I moved each adjustment screw for a while, but then lost track. My manuals do not list the clearance between the release bearing and the fingers. Does anyone know that spec?. Is it highly critical? Before I started messing with it it looked like it could be 1/16-1/8 inch or so. Barely moving the screws makes a lot of difference in the clearance, but doesn't help any. Don't know if it will do any good anyway, as I have had them from loose to overtight with no results. Tighter, turning them in clockwise decreases the clearance and makes the clutch more fully disengage? This may not be the proper way, but after I had the clutch and TA adjusted to "specs", I disconnected the TA and concentrated only on the engine clutch, intending to adjust the TA and make final adjustments after I finally get the transmission disconnected from the engine. My thinking is that the TA adjustment does not change the engine clutch adjustment, but that they both have to be adjusted correctly for the TA to work correctly, so why can't I get the thing to disengage?

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Owen Aaland

05-23-2007 19:24:29
198.70.47.171



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 Re: 460 clutch adjustment in reply to CNKS, 05-23-2007 14:41:12  
The adjustment of the clutch cover levers is important in that if they are not all set the same it will cause the release bearing to wobble while disengaging the clutch and this will cause accelerated wear on those parts. Also the pressure plate will not engage and release the disc evenly. This will cause a hot spot on the pressure plate and can really shorten the clutch life.

Since you were not able to get it to release when first installed, like the tractor vet said, you have one of two problems, installed backwards, or the disc was bent on installation.

The clutch cover assemblies coming from Hy-Capacity are adjusted in a jig that results in the lever height being correct within a couple of thousands of an inch, much more accurate than you are going to be able to accomplish in the tractor. You can probably get the levers set close enough to give you good service, but first you have to determine the reason it will not release. Since you ar sure that it did not bind up while assembling, then the most likely cause is the disk is in backwards. That has to be corrected before you can make any accurate adjustments.

When assembling the clutch to the tractor, on those models with independent PTO and that have a large enough hole in the bottom of the clutch housing, it is easier to put the clutch assembly on the input shafts and slide the tractor together. Then, going through the bottom hole, bolt the clutch cover to the flywheel.

Check the disc in the flywheel before assembling. When installed correctly there must be some clearence between the front of the disk and the crankshaft retaining bolts. If not, either the disc is in backwards or the flywheel is worn out.

To adjust the release levers while installed, get one lever as close as you can. Adjust the release bearing until you have .030 clearance. (It doesn't make any difference what the thickness is but you said that was your largest feeler gauge. I usually use a piece of keystock.) The adjust the other two levers until they are all the same. With the engine running, move the release bearing forward enough to make sure the bearing is turning. The bearing should not be wobbling. If it is you need to do a little more adjusting.

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CNKS

05-23-2007 19:44:17
204.249.178.32



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 Re: 460 clutch adjustment in reply to Owen Aaland, 05-23-2007 19:24:29  
Thanks, I suppose backwards is the most likely possibility, but I remember looking very closely at the parts manual to make sure it was correct. I can put various shims together to get different thicknesses, but if you say 0.030 is ok, I will do that. Since the old clutch was working, and the flywheel looked good, I don't think that is the problem. If I have to split the tractor, I will have it machined. I suppose I can take out the bolts that hold it to the fly wheel and slide it enough to see if the disk is in backwards, or maybe bent. But, I have a feeling it is something that I have overlooked, just like everything else -- I just don't know what.

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Owen Aaland

05-24-2007 11:58:37
198.70.47.171



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 Re: 460 clutch adjustment in reply to CNKS, 05-23-2007 19:44:17  
The clutch lever height is measured from the wear surface of the pressure plate to the contact point on the release bearing end of the levers when the clutch is in the installed position. Without the special tools to set the levers with clutch out of the flywheel, you can only come close to what it should be.

The reason the thickness of feeler gauge makes no difference is because we have no way of knowing how far the release bearing is from the correct specification. That is why when the clutch is out you need to get the levers set as close as posible.

If your clutch has the adjustment screws on the inside end of the levers, the screws should be close to centered in the levers. If the adjustment screws are on the outside end, then you need to adjust the levers until they are parallel with the flywheel surface when the clutch is assembled. Once you have this initial setting you can assemble the tractor.

For the final setting, to get the lever adjustment the same on all three levers, you set the distance to the release bearing. For me it works best to use a piece of keystock. It is longer and does not bend like a feeler gauge if you are a little tight. Just adjust the release bearing until the gauge is a slip fit between the bearing and the lever you are staring with. When you get the bearing adjusted to a slip fit, turn the engine and adjust the other two levers until they have the same fit. When all the levers are the same you can then adjust the bearing so that there is one inch free travel at the clutch pedal.

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CNKS

05-24-2007 13:23:30
204.249.178.32



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 Re: 460 clutch adjustment in reply to Owen Aaland, 05-24-2007 11:58:37  
I set them at "about" 0.059 I used the .030 gage, but for me it is impossible to hold the screwdriver and tighten the lock nut without losing the adjustment. But, when I was done, a .030 and .029 together had a fit that felt the same on each of the 3 levers. Screws are on the outside. If I have to split it, I will do as you say. I don't think the adjustment is very far off, nor does it vary significantly from one lever to the other -- granted the clutch may wear faster. It still does not work, and I have other things to do, so the tractor is going to sit for a while. I looked at my parts book, and don't see how I possibly could have it in backwards -- but anything is possible, I'm wondering if I have the right clutch. I didn't do much comparison to the old one, and sent it to the Mfg, so I have no way of knowing -- thanks for your help.

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the tractor vet

05-23-2007 17:20:09
76.212.224.237



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 Re: 460 clutch adjustment in reply to CNKS, 05-23-2007 14:41:12  
Sometimes with the age of this fine old iron ya can not go BY THE BOOK , As ya have ware everwhere and going by the book will not make things work . SO first off just make sure that the throwout bearing is not riding on the fingers if what 826 said about step hight on the flywheel . Next make your T/A adjustments so that the clutch pulls against the T/A throw out bearing and makes it release. and that you have a WEEEeeeeeeeee bit of free play and call it good.

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CNKS

05-23-2007 17:40:05
204.249.178.32



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 Re: 460 clutch adjustment in reply to the tractor vet, 05-23-2007 17:20:09  
When I installed it, it appeared that there was too much clearance between the fingers and the bearing, I turned the adusting screw in 1/2 turn, which if I remember right made the fingers touch the bearing, lightly. So what you are saying is there must be minimal clearance, but the fingers are not supposed to touch the bearing? Thing is, I have tightened the fingers until the bearing was hard to turn (not about to leave it that way) trying to get maximum release of the clutch, and even removed the foot rest so I could push the clutch further, and have lengthed the adjusting rod to the point where I could barely get the pin in -- no difference. All I have been able to do with the various adjustments is that when I shift it into gear and start it, it won't creep with the clutch pedal pushed down. It simply will not disengage enough to shift.

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the tractor vet

05-23-2007 18:01:24
76.212.224.237



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 Re: 460 clutch adjustment in reply to CNKS, 05-23-2007 17:40:05  
Cn , i hate to tell ya this but ya had better pull her back apart and take some massurements on the step to face and make sure that ya have the disc in correctly or that when ya slid her together ya did not warp the disc. In all my years and all the clutch jobs that i have done i have never ever had to change fingure settings , Now there have been a couple times that i had to screw the clutch rod almost all the way to the last few threads or pull one back apart and replace the flywheel or even add a section to the rod because of extream ware in the holes in the bell housing . Now i do not know who's clutch you put in but are you also sure that ya did not leave any shipping shims in or that it did not come with shipping bolts . Sometimes they use flat wshers between the cover and the levers some times it is lock washers sometimes it is small nuts . and if by chance ya missed them then when ya pulled the plate down they can get caught and make the clutch either not release of not ingauge . Ya know if RED would just come thru with that LEAR JET i could make service calls and it would be a whole bunch easier.

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CNKS

05-23-2007 18:26:49
204.249.178.32



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 Re: 460 clutch adjustment in reply to the tractor vet, 05-23-2007 18:01:24  
If I have to split it, it's going to have to wait a while. Clutch was sold by Steel Wheel Ranch, reconditioned by Hy? Capacity. The only thing I might have done wrong was to misalign the clutch on the flywheel so that it wobbles. But in looking at it with the tractor running, it looks centered to me. No shipping bolts, I did not see anything that looked like it was shimmed or anything -- but anything is possible, I guess. The lock nuts on the levers were painted to mark their position, likely to tell me to leave them alone, which I didn't. I don't know how I could have warped the plate. Once I got the shaft lined up with the hole it went together easily. Going to mess with it another day or two, then I have to get my house and property ready for sale. All I really need to do is get it on a trailer to move, which can be done, although I would sure like to have it working right first.

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K.B.-826

05-23-2007 16:38:15
24.180.143.209



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 Re: 460 clutch adjustment in reply to CNKS, 05-23-2007 14:41:12  
1/8" to 1/16" sounds about right on bearing to lever clearance. Did this problem occur right after the new clutch was installed? If so, could be many things. Was the flywheel surfaced, and did it get machined to the correct specs? Did the new disk slide freely on the splines? Any chance the disk was damaged during reassembly? Could it be something like the pedal linkage flexing?



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CNKS

05-23-2007 17:26:38
204.249.178.32



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 Re: 460 clutch adjustment in reply to K.B.-826, 05-23-2007 16:38:15  
None of the above. I did not have the flywheel resurfaced because it looked to me to be in good condition. The only other clutch I have ever replaced was in my Super H, I did have the flywheel resurfaced there because it was in pretty sad shape. On the 460, the shaft hole, or whatever, that the shaft goes thru was centered as best as I could do without the proper tool, I believe it is correct. Since the Rockford-type clutch has no bolts to remove that compress the springs for installation, all I had to do was bolt it to the flywheel. No particular problem putting the front and rear of the tractor together. The old clutch and the TA worked fine before I tore the tractor down. Since it was split, I replaced the clutch, although the old one was not excessively worn. New clutch shaft, and the pedal was rebushed. Everything tight and fits correctly as far as I can tell. TA appears as it should be. Entire unit spins in direct, with TA pulled only the center disk turns. As to shifting it makes no difference if the TA is pulled. I going to set the fingers at 1/16 (.0625) unless someone knows the exact number. My feeler gages only go to .03, I suppose I could put a .03, .029 and a .002 together. Will be hard to measure with just a ruler.

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