B-434 questions

I have an early '60s vintage B-434 that has served me well for the past 30 years but now needs some TLC. I am currently replacing the wheels due to them rusting out and thought I would take the time to investigate an axle leak, change the gear box oil and try and figure out why the clutch isn't disengaging the gear box from the engine.

1. The leak appears to be on the left side where the rear axle carrier meets the differential housing. I suspect it's a gasket that has failed and it's a rather steady drip but I found a few loose bolts. Anybody know the torque spec?

2.The oil I drained out of the three drains looks like cafe au lait and smells pretty foul. What is the correct oil to use to fill this? The manual I have is for the US made 424 and 444 and specs IH Hy-Tran fluid. What is the correct fluid for the British made B-434?

3. I have checked the clutch pedal height and travel and it seems there should be enough movement to disengage the clutch. My experience from cars is that when the clutch plate is worn out, the transmission slips. This is the opposite in that it doesn't seem to disengage, so what the heck is going on?

On the clutch, the friction disk is sticking to the flywheel. It can rust there, or be stuck there by decomposed oil from a rear main, or front
transmission leak. Driving it around with the clutch pedal blocked down in 3rd gear (where you can control the operation with out running into things)
usually works. application of brakes can help unstick it. Once unstuck, blocking the clutch down solves the issue between uses. Use torque appropriate
for that bolt size/thread from a chart. Jim

Hi, 434 should have 80 or 90 wt gear oil in the transmission/differential UNLESS someone has fitted an auxiliary hydraulic pump that runs off the front
of the crankshaft and uses the transmission/differential as an auxiliary hydraulic reservoir.
Re leak, if tightening the bolts(somewhere I have a chart for IH bolt specs) does not fix it , to replace the seal would require removing the axle and that
requires removing the hydraulic housing to remove the bolt on the end of the axle at the bull gear.
I would try loosening the bolts to see if you can get enough wiggle room to clean the gasket area with brake cleaner and then apply some of the RTV
gasket sealant.

I will answer your other questions later.

Thanks. I will try this once I get the new wheels fitted. The problem started last March after a particularly wet snow fall, so could be related to snow/water getting into the flywheel inspection port.

(quoted from post at 11:15:52 09/21/19) Hi, 434 should have 80 or 90 wt gear oil in the transmission/differential UNLESS someone has fitted an auxiliary hydraulic pump that runs off the front
of the crankshaft and uses the transmission/differential as an auxiliary hydraulic reservoir.
Re leak, if tightening the bolts(somewhere I have a chart for IH bolt specs) does not fix it , to replace the seal would require removing the axle and that
requires removing the hydraulic housing to remove the bolt on the end of the axle at the bull gear.
I would try loosening the bolts to see if you can get enough wiggle room to clean the gasket area with brake cleaner and then apply some of the RTV
gasket sealant.

I will answer your other questions later.

Click to expand...

Thanks. There is no auxiliary hydraulic system and as far as I can tell the main hydraulic has it's own reservoir which sits on the top of the differential housing, so no intermingling of fluids there. Since the liquid was really foul, is it possible that it was filled with TDH that absorbed water over the years? I have never done a change in the 30 years I have owned it and only put maybe 50 to 75 hours on a year.

I thought it had wet brakes but in reviewing the literature of the I&T shop manual, (which covers the B-275 and B-414 but not the B-434) it appears to have dry brakes. One side is sticking so maybe I will get to that as well.

B414D and 434 were almost identical except for the sheet metal, improvements to the brakes, dry element air filter and key switch had glow plug and start switch all in one.

Forgot to mention that this tractor is the gasoline variant. I understand that the B275 B414 are now or less the same but have some slight differences.

Hi, see below for IH Bolt chart and torque specs.

Re transmission clutch, it could be stuck as the other Jim has indicated or the fingers on the pressure plate require adjustment see attached photo.
See the 3 screw heads circled in red, where the pressure plate fingers pivot on these screw heads a groove gets worn in the finger bolt hole and if you turn each screw 1/4 turn then the screw head will be
out of the worn groove. When the fingers become worn the usual symptom is the PTO is difficult to engage. Also check that the points of the fingers are not worn off by a seized throwout bearing.

Re Brake grabbing, hopefully the grabbing is not caused by oil leaking from trans/diff and cleaning the ramp and rollers and taking the glaze off the disks will fix them.

See link below:

See this one for repairs to an Industrial 3444 same rear end as 434 but has the front hydraulic pump that uses Trans/Diff as a Hytran reservoir:
https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1397552&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=3c4208b1590124aca10ab76f8b0f7d17





434 Brake Repair Link

(quoted from post at 15:22:15 09/21/19) Re transmission clutch, it could be stuck as the other Jim has indicated or the fingers on the pressure plate require adjustment see attached photo.
See the 3 screw heads circled in red, where the pressure plate fingers pivot on these screw heads a groove gets worn in the finger bolt hole and if you turn each screw 1/4 turn then the screw head will be
out of the worn groove. When the fingers become worn the usual symptom is the PTO is difficult to engage. Also check that the points of the fingers are not worn off by a seized throwout bearing.

Click to expand...

Can this be done with the tractor assembled or do I have to split it? The PTO definitely can't be engaged unless the engine is off.

Re Brake grabbing, hopefully the grabbing is not caused by oil leaking from trans/diff and cleaning the ramp and rollers and taking the glaze off the disks will fix them.

See link below:

See this one for repairs to an Industrial 3444 same rear end as 434 but has the front hydraulic pump that uses Trans/Diff as a Hytran reservoir:
https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1397552&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=3c4208b1590124aca10ab76f8b0f7d17




<img src="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto37074.jpg">
434 Brake Repair Link

Click to expand...

Very helpful. Many thanks. I picked up some 80w90 Traxon oil at a decent price today. Traxon is a Petro Canada brand and was less money than the generic 80w90.

I realize that gear oil can't be used as a hydraulic fluid but I also found some Shell Donax TD Low Vis that has been rebranded as Spirax S3 TLV and was curious if it was compatible with mineral oils. On occasion I do have to go out in -40 weather to clear snow and have noticed the gear shift is pretty stiff, so a lighter weight oil would definitely help keep things loose.

I am a Canadian as well, and I understand your problem at -30C or -30F can hardly shift the transmission from one gear to the next. You can use Hytran in the hydraulic system but I don't recommend Hytran for
the Trans/Diff or you will have leaks every where. We used our 434 with 1501 loader to feed cattle silage everyday rain, snow or shine.

I discovered a few more things and since it was raining today, I did some running around and picked up various parts and materials.

I realized that my hydraulic system was noisy , so I am going to do a fluid change. I think I have type F transmission oil in there right now. I picked up a 5 gallon pail of the Spirax TD-LV as a replacement fluid, It meets the MS-1206, 1209 and 1210 standards so it should be acceptable.

I also found there is a Permatex green coloured gasket maker for use on transmissions and differentials, formulated to resist gear box oils and rated to 450 degrees F continuous.

I need to take the fenders off to get at the brake housings more easily. The bolts are seized in there so tight that I can lift the tractor up on the bolt end point. I need to get a gap between the axle housing and base plate of the fender, then i can go to work with the sawzall.

A check of the torque of the axle housing bolts showed that at least 6 on each side were loose. I haven't filled up the gear box yet pending removal of a plate on the underside between the bell hosing and the transmission, which I hope will allow me to examine the clutch fingers or not. I am hoping I don't have to break the tractor apart but I guess I will see. If the axle still leaks I have the green Permatex to seal it back up now.

I will be getting the tires mounted on the new wheels tomorrow, so at least I can move it under cover to continue the dismantling, as required.

(quoted from post at 00:20:29 09/24/19)

Click to expand...

Good progress today. Got the new wheels on the tractor. Looks pretty snazzy.

I filled up the transmission and differential with oil and it would appear that re-torquing the axle housing bolts solved the leakage issue.

Below are pictures of the source of the clutch problems.





By removing the under cover, I was able to gain access to the clutch without splitting the tractor. As JimB suggested, it was an issue with the clutch release fingers, specifically one of the adjuster screws, which had broken, preventing the release bearing from working correctly. The part is on order, though it's essentially a 5/16 UNF x 1.55" countersunk machine screw.