(800) 853-2651
SHOP NOW

Super M total timing?

K

kopeck

Member
Afternoon,

I had to replace the points in the distributor on my '52 Super M. When they failed I was away from the house on a Sunday so I ended up pulling the distributor and throwing on a mag I had to get home.

Anyway, new points in, mag off, distributor installed. I installed it by the book, it started right up and idled away.

For the fun of it I threw my timing light on and found at low idle I was pretty much on TDC but at high idle I was only getting 12 degrees of advance. My book says the SM should be about 30. 12 seems pretty low to me.

This machine has stepped pistons in it, I don't know if they're the run of the mill type you can get today or if they're legit IH Firecraters. I know I've read with the Firecrater kits the timing was retarded so I guess that's a possibility. I do know with the mag on it idled pretty poorly but those things are 40 degrees as soon as the engine spins up.

Other than tearing it apart to see if the weights are sticking is there a reason why I would be missing so much timing?

K
 
well first of all i have never seen a set of points fail in all my years of mechanical work. but have seen lots of electronic modules fail... thats when your done!, stopped no go. a set of points will always get you home. points get corroded on contacts when sitting in the closed position and wont fire. they also will get hot and burn with ignition left on. or they just get pitted from arching fron use. it just takes a file and the contacts can be filed flat removing the pits . all that worn points do is make the engine miss but it still will run. same with spark plugs. just open tab and file electrode flat and regap once rounded from use and good to go again. a plug can not fire also. but i would trust points more than a spark plug.
the weights are probably all gummed up and not flying open when reved up. nothing wrong with mags either. i just watched tractors with mags pulling this weekend and they pull and run as good as distributor tractors. and am curious what actually happened to the points on your tractor?
 
Points can certainly fail as I was raking hay with my 1953 Super C which runs like a perfectly balanced top and with no prior issue or inclination it just stopped like someone pushed the on-off switch. Tried to restart and not a pop, spit of anything, just cranking over with the starter. Look around and couldn't see anything obvious so removed the distributor cap to see if the rotor was turning and there was the spring that closes the points to make contact broken in two pieces. Don't know if they were IHC points or something from a more recent aftermarket parts supplier but a new set of contacts and problem quickly solved, Hal.
 
Some IH piston kit in tractor lifetime called for 22 degree total. Your still low though. Turn distributor rotor engine stopped to get a idea about the advance. Should go to stop one direction and spring back to stop in other direction. Free movement depends on lube before years pass for cam wick, weights, weight and spring pivots and no damage to weight guard from a screw to long installed in breaker plate. Would make sure tractor is actually on top dead center at idle. If weak advance springs or idle not real slow it's hard to tell for sure with a light sometimes. If nothing is found the breaker plate needs removed from housing for getting to advance parts. Distributor shaft should have a number like the picture for total advance with initial setting starting from TDC. 30 would have 30 with L before or after number.
a270102.jpg
 
i was going to say that would be one way for points failing if the spring gave out. but thats pretty rare.
 
Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned the points, how about it just broke. :)

It was idling along happily and then it died, no warning. I dressed the points real quick but that didn't seem to help. I did change out the points, condenser and rotor so it could have been one of those items as well. The cap looked fine, the rotor did too but NAPA had one in stock so I figured why not. The points were pretty pitted, I have no idea how old they were, they've been in there as long as I've owned the tractor.

Still the timing thing is odd. I know the shaft/plates are marked, I have one apart that I was going to replace the bushing in. I guess I need to tear into it and see what's going on. Really though if I never put the light on it I wouldn't think there was a thing wrong...

K
 
At low idle the timing is already advanced a few degrees.
That happened as soon as the engine started. I suggest static timing it to start with, and going from there.

As a second thought, cubs used a 16 degree advance, somewhere along the line it could have had a cub distributor put on it, as I recall the only difference is the advace.
 
(quoted from post at 20:19:52 06/10/18) At low idle the timing is already advanced a few degrees.
That happened as soon as the engine started. I suggest static timing it to start with, and going from there.

As a second thought, cubs used a 16 degree advance, somewhere along the line it could have had a cub distributor put on it, as I recall the only difference is the advace.
Click to expand...

It was slight advanced at idle but not much. I didn't measure it. I'll start by redoing the base timing, it's possible I retarded it a bit. It doesn't seem like I could retard it 15 degrees and still have it run well though...

I didn't know Cubs used the same distributor as their bigger brothers. I knew the Mags were different. Learn something every day.

K
 
IF you have the engine running at the CORRECT Curb idle then there is NO mechanical advance taken place IF the dist is working correctly , loose weak springs woren pins of weights can change this . Now with a power pac kit then you want someplace between 22 to 27 degree total at WOT at rated full load speed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

D
M sn break
2
Replies
20
Views
1K
DR. EVIL
D
S
I have a 51 ferguson t020 out of timing
Replies
14
Views
484
wore out
wore out
M
Super M transmission shaft seal
Replies
7
Views
176
Mark Poss
M
J
656 Gas Timing
Replies
13
Views
945
Jamste1005
J
G
C264 SUPER M BLOCK
Replies
7
Views
450
caterpillar guy
C
Tractor Parts Tractor Manuals

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy

Back
Top