My dad has a 1951 M that is all restored and last fall it started crunching and jerking in the rear end, so needless to say it is parked until he decides what to do with it. Does a super M have a roller bearing rear end or does it have the same cheap ball bearings as the M? We know where we could pick up a SM rear. I do like the gear spacing on the supers better, but are they any more reliable? We have owned 3 M's over the years and all of them have had rear end/axle bearing issues and two of them had patched rear ends. We have sentimental memories of the old M's and like them quite a bit, but they sure don't seem to like us!
- Thread starter Heath72
- Start date
randy hall
Member
more than likely a pinion bearing went bad. just take it apart and fix it. they aren't rocket science and no special tools are needed. A super m has better pinion bearings but most people don't like dealing with worn out disc brakes.
John M
Well-known Member
- Location
- Nunyafn business
We have had many Ms and Super Ms, and Ive been into more of them than I can count. Not once did I ever see one with a cracked housing from a bearing. Not saying it doesn't happen, but we never saw one. Most of the bearing failures we fixed because the bearing was the original bearing, or the owner worked the snot out of it and abused it, or never bothered checking the rear end oil, or in most cases the bearing was replaced with a cheap bearing to start with. To answer your question, no, the Super M uses the same bearings.
If you like the old M put the SM transmission countershaft in it with gears, the SM reverse idler gear, the SM input shaft and housing then put the SM main shaft gears on the M main shaft with the same shims on main shaft. Unless the main shaft bearing or differential carrier bearings or bevel gears has problems and the gear mesh messed up. Then fix any other problems found inside housing. No roller bearings in a SM unless added later. If you want to find the inner axle rollers and pay for them they will go in the M. M will look like it always did on the outside. can't make the other bearings bigger without installing disc brakes.
Actually a tapered roller bearing (commonly referred to as a timken but IH made tons of them also) always used to cost less than a ball bearing. The flat roller ,mostly Bower, are the expensive ones .
The reason IH stayed with ball for so long is two fold. Rolling friction of ball lets you put more engine horse power to the drawbar. Second ,and most likely, less machining of parts as all tapered rollers have to be adjusted for preload or end play.
The reason IH stayed with ball for so long is two fold. Rolling friction of ball lets you put more engine horse power to the drawbar. Second ,and most likely, less machining of parts as all tapered rollers have to be adjusted for preload or end play.
Old weldor
Member
When I bought my 48 M I looked under the rear end and saw a weld. The seller said does that bother you? I said no that just tells me it has new bearings!
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
Those old "cheap ball bearings" also lasted, um... 2018 minus 1951... 67 years. No reason to think new bearings won't last another 67 years...
Fact of the matter is this was a continual problem for IH. Under-engineered rear ends caused the downfall of the company. We are 3 for 3 with these issues. I replaced the outer axle bearing on an M a few years ago and it was no fun getting that old one out...I speak from experience. I can't even imagine trying to replace the inner bearing. We have also owned a number of MM model U tractors. They had extremely heavy-duty rear ends with all roller bearing construction and were generally built like a tank. Not as handy to operate in some ways as a Farmall, but never seen or heard of one with any rear end issues. Proof as far as I'm concerned that roller bearings are better. What are they using today?
John M
Well-known Member
- Location
- Nunyafn business
Actually, that didn't occur with the letter series.
mccormicksw4
Member
through my experience most bearing failures in these tractors after 50 years is a low oil level due to oil leaks ........guys to cheap to fix the initial problem because its still workin' fine :roll:
It is so much easier to work on those IH tractors with ball bearings. I have all Farmalls except for a B John Deere and an SC Case that I just finished a complete rebuild. It is a pain to work with those tapered roller bearings. I don't know how many times I had the bearing caps off changing shims to get the right end play. Then you have to deal with shims leaking transmission fluid as they are not a bearing cap seal.
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