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Frozen rear end!

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denglish

02-13-2018 08:18:13




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Had an interesting experience with my 49 M. It has been running and working well. I even used the two bottom trip plow a few weeks ago and the tractor did great plowing in first gear.

However, on Saturday I started the tractor after it had set for a week or in the cold weather. Several days of temps in the teens. When I started it the temperature was 23 F.
After I let it warm up for 4 or 5 minutes, I hopped on and put it in reverse to back out of the open shed and it wouldn't move. The engine bogged down as I engaged the clutch as if there were a heavy load or the brakes were on. Then I shifted to first and the same thing.

I then turned it off and let it alone on the assumption that the cold weather had something to do with this. I have not tried to move it again, but the next two days are above freezing so I will give it a try tomorrow.

I have had the tractor for two years, but have never checked the differential oil (I know, bad me). I'm wondering if there is water in there that actually froze and prevented the axles from moving freely. I'll see what happens later today or tomorrow, if I find time.

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denglish

02-19-2018 08:43:46




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 Re: Frozen rear end! in reply to denglish, 02-13-2018 08:18:13  
PretendFarmer,

See my post immediately above. I didn't need a block heater, as we had several warm days. Oil has been drained and replaced with new.
Only question I have at this point, is whether i should add another gallon or two? It only took 11 gallons to reach the overflow plug on the left of the transmission.



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PretendFarmer

02-19-2018 08:33:57




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 Re: Frozen rear end! in reply to denglish, 02-13-2018 08:18:13  
Go buy a magnetic block heater. They aren't that expensive. Any auto parts store should have one.

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/TWR3400017

Let it sit on there a few days. Then, go out and loosen up the drain plug. Youll want to have a pan under it. You'll have to take the plug off, but keep it right there. Water will be the first to come off. When oil starts to come out, put the plug back in.

If you were to want to drain off water during the year, you should let the tractor sit for a few days to ensure that the oil and water separated. Water will always settle to the bottom and drain out first.

I would suggest you completely drain the oil however, draining the water out and topping off with clean oil is a good idea for now. Give it a good workout then drain completely so you get as much of the old stuff out as possible.

When you fill up with new oil it should be good for a long time. I regularly drain off water yearly on all my farmalls. I do that every spring BEFORE the first startup of the year.

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denglish

02-19-2018 07:27:40




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 Re: Frozen rear end! in reply to denglish, 02-13-2018 08:18:13  
My problem was just like that described by Bob M. Frozen by a block of water/ice sitting in the bottom of the rear end.
Things thawed out enough last week for me to just push on the rear tire and tell the drive train was thawed. I used the tractor on Saturday to haul some fire wood. After letting it sit for a few hours, I cracked open the drain and two or three gallons of clear water came out followed by about 7 gallons of old gear lube. The gear lube, obviously contaminated with water and rust, was orange and looked like some really disgusting chili.

I refilled it with just over 11 gallons of gear oil (not cheap, paid $195 for 13 gallons at O'Reilly). I expected it to take 13, but after adding 11, it was coming out of the plug on the left side of the transmission. Maybe it has two gallons of sludge still in the differential? Not sure.

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FastFarmall

03-02-2018 01:48:49




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 Re: Frozen rear end! in reply to denglish, 02-19-2018 07:27:40  
I took the PTO out of one of my M's there easily 1 gal of crap left in there, between the bull gears,and i had it sitting uphill before i removed it. The way a lot of that water gets in there is threw the top deck bolts. Go buy some 4 inch wide rolled up skid proof, with some adhesieve on one side,take a tin snips and cut it to fit from the pedals back, have it clean and it will stick and stay in place ! It's a 3-M product i think.

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hd6gtom

02-13-2018 21:29:48




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 Re: Frozen rear end! in reply to denglish, 02-13-2018 08:18:13  
They were also famous for rear end bearings coming apart, balls dropping down and getting caught under the bull gears. There is not enough clearance between the inner rear end housing and the bull gear for the balls to pass. Then the rear end housing splits. Wife's uncle ran a junk yard in the 50's thru the 90's. He usually had a list of guys wanting a used housing. So if you pull the plug and don't get any water you will need the pull it apart.

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David G

02-13-2018 21:06:45




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 Re: Frozen rear end! in reply to denglish, 02-13-2018 08:18:13  
crack open the drain plug before starting it again, should let what has melted out before mixing again.



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highwayman

02-13-2018 15:50:46




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 Re: Frozen rear end! in reply to denglish, 02-13-2018 08:18:13  
Iíve got an m thatís now a parts tractor because of a frozen rear end. Belongs to my son in law and it did just as you described. Wouldnít move but he was determined to move it. Long story short it moved when the bottom blew out of the erear end It sits out here now with two holes and no oil slowly being cannibalized.



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Cory Schmidt

02-13-2018 15:29:41




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 Re: Frozen rear end! in reply to denglish, 02-13-2018 08:18:13  
have that problem on our W4 now, just have to wait for a week or longer of well above freezing. Not real sure but read (on here likely) the old IH tractors that have the platform bolts recessed(like the letter series)... over time the recesses allow water to seep in to the rear end. The fix for that(also read some place) is to pull the bolts and slip a copper(soft enough to seal the hole, yet hard to allow proper tightening) washer over the bolt and retighten.

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ihtimmy

02-13-2018 13:30:23




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 Re: Frozen rear end! in reply to denglish, 02-13-2018 08:18:13  
Hold a lot of them WinchIím on the back of the truck and brought them in the shop take the drain plug out with the pan underneath them and let them set all weekend



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rustred

02-13-2018 10:45:15




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 Re: Frozen rear end! in reply to denglish, 02-13-2018 08:18:13  
water has froze the bull gears . get a coffee can or tobacco can i used as a roll of toilet paper fits good it it. soak the paper with kerosene and have some kerosene on bottom . light it and stick under tractor diff.keep checking drain plug and drain into tub as it thaws out. i know you said open shed but just need to keep an eye on things . i have started my truck like this in -40 weather when in bush. you will be waiting a long time to thaw by itself. need to make sure all ice is melted as not to damage something if rotating with ice in gear cogs. other option is use a herman nelson but there is a lot more heat involved it that. i have even warmed some up with a propane tiger torch. u have options.

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wilson ind

02-13-2018 10:53:15




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 Re: Frozen rear end! in reply to rustred, 02-13-2018 10:45:15  
What is a Herman nelson?



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rustred

02-13-2018 11:44:43




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 Re: Frozen rear end! in reply to wilson ind, 02-13-2018 10:53:15  
its just the fuel and electric fan power heater, as we call them that. pete called it torpedo heater. different names for the heater.



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Fritz Maurer

02-13-2018 16:51:35




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 Re: Frozen rear end! in reply to rustred, 02-13-2018 11:44:43  
Was (is) yours a pot-type burner with air blowing across the puddle?



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johnemcn

02-13-2018 10:44:06




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 Re: Frozen rear end! in reply to denglish, 02-13-2018 08:18:13  
Yes, you'll have to change the gear lube when it thaws. I see Steiners sell a rubber gear shift boot for the H and M. I wonder if that would prevent rain water from leaking in



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pete 23

02-13-2018 10:43:15




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 Re: Frozen rear end! in reply to denglish, 02-13-2018 08:18:13  
Torpedo heater or electric heater if they can safely be used in your situation. Other wise it will be a long time thawing out on it's own.



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BarnyardEngineering

02-13-2018 10:27:30




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 Re: Frozen rear end! in reply to denglish, 02-13-2018 08:18:13  
Definitely gonna take more than one or two days at above freezing to thaw it out. Heck the inside of the pole barn wasn't even above freezing inside despite it being almost 50 outside last Sunday, and mid 30's the day before.

I do agree that the vast majority of the water got in from the tractor sitting outside in the rain, not from condensation. You would have to live in a climate with temperature swings from arctic to rain forest on a daily basis for any appreciable amount of condensation to accumulate in there, unless the oil hasn't been changed in decades. A lot more water will enter through places like the shift tower as liquid water than as water vapor carried by air.

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2002sliverado

02-13-2018 09:44:26




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 Re: Frozen rear end! in reply to denglish, 02-13-2018 08:18:13  
Had this same thing happen on two Farmalls. One was a 706 and the other an H. Both were owned by a man I worked for. I brought some maintenance to the operation, which had been lacking for quite some time, but didn't realize just how bad it had been until this "freeze up." Knipco heater aimed at the rear end tub to warm it up was used for both of these tractors and fortunately they both were inside a non-insulated building where we could work on them removed from the harshest of outside elements.

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denglish

02-13-2018 09:20:54




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 Re: Frozen rear end! in reply to denglish, 02-13-2018 08:18:13  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

If there is a hole for water to get in from sitting "in the elements", then that hole will also let vapor in and out. Especially when you think about expansion and contraction of the air in the transmission as it heats and cools repeatedly.



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AlinMO

02-13-2018 08:52:09




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 Re: Frozen rear end! in reply to denglish, 02-13-2018 08:18:13  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Bet it's going to take more that a day or two to thaw unless you apply heat or put it in really warm place. I had a Plymouth wagon that got water in spare tire well right behind rear wheel. Froze up and took 2 weeks of moderate weather to melt.



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denglish

02-13-2018 08:42:19




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 Re: Frozen rear end! in reply to denglish, 02-13-2018 08:18:13  
Yes. Welded to the floor is a good description. It's a disconcerting feeling to release the clutch and have the tractor starting groaning while sitting still! Also this is a good cautionary tale about checking/changing those fluids on a new old tractor.



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Bob M

02-13-2018 08:34:10




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 Re: Frozen rear end! in reply to denglish, 02-13-2018 08:18:13  
Same thing happened to my Super M a few winters ago. It was like the tractor was welded to the concrete floor in the shed.

Had to wait 5 or 6 weeks for a stretch above freezing weather. I then pulled the drain plug - was rewarded with 5+ gallons of crystal clear water before any oil appeared.

Let it drain entirely then refilled with 13 gallons fresh 80W90. Have had no cold weather issues since.

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denglish

02-13-2018 08:28:07




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 Re: Frozen rear end! in reply to denglish, 02-13-2018 08:18:13  
Yes. I think that is the case since it was fine when I parked it. I wish I had been more diligent about checking the rear end oil. I'll plan to drain and refill as suggested if it frees up in this warmer weather. Hard to imagine how that much water got in there just by condensation (assuming that is the issue).



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gene bender

02-13-2018 09:02:42




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 Re: Frozen rear end! in reply to denglish, 02-13-2018 08:28:07  
it didn't get there by condensation it has sat outside in the elements too long.Question just where is there a hole for outside air to get into the tranny



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old

02-13-2018 08:53:50




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 Re: Frozen rear end! in reply to denglish, 02-13-2018 08:28:07  
I had something like that happen to me on my Ford 841S but it was water in the transmission so you could even start the tractor.



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khouse6

02-13-2018 08:23:30




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 Re: Frozen rear end! in reply to denglish, 02-13-2018 08:18:13  
really good chance that you have ice in the case. give it a few days of warm weather and try it again. a friend of mine says to crack open the drain plug and let the goop out and then fill



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