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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

1086 IH

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DLR

11-13-2017 12:16:13




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Change fuel filters,I fill them with fuel when replacing, primed, opened bleed screw and removed air, but it will not crank,getting exhaust smoke. Was running fine before filter change. I have had tractor over 30 yrs and never had this problem




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BarnyardEngineering

11-17-2017 04:12:46




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 Re: 1086 IH in reply to DLR, 11-13-2017 12:16:13  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

This is a forum. We only have the words we can see in front of our eyes on the screen. We cannot see into your mind to tell if you are an experienced diesel mechanic, or a complete newbie. You provided newbie-level information in your post, so people approached it as if you were a newbie.

Sorry if that hurt your feelings, but you need to understand that with 9 posts, we don't know you or your level of expertise and we can't assume anything.

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pete 23

11-16-2017 18:05:59




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 Re: 1086 IH in reply to DLR, 11-13-2017 12:16:13  
Just cannot resist getting in on this again. The original question posted was somewhat confusing with the word cranking and not starting but I think most of us knew what he meant. It takes a lot of pumping with the primer to get all the air out after changing filters because it drains out of the line (rubber hose) from filter to pump and getting air out of the top of the filter does nothing for getting that air out . So, if you try starting the engine with that air in hose, the air hits the pumping element in head of pump and the pumping element (plunger) will not pump air. It just compresses it and releases it as it will not build enough pressure to open the delivery valve in head so it just stays there until eventually the charge pump forces the fuel on through which takes a whole lot of unnecessary cranking. That is why, after you know final filter is full you keep pumping so fuel going right through the charging chamber of the head. Give it few or 50 extra pumps so you know it is all clear. Then it will pop right off. Have had to run out in the country so many times to bleed one of those tractors for customers. Usually they have run the battery down and when I get it running I tell them they need to charge their batteries, which the normal reply is , well, the alternator should do that. So, next week I repair their alternator. NO, not always, but many times.

As far as fuel filters on a storage tank, they are no where near as fine as that final filter. Not even as fine as primary. We had some head failures on early 400 series engines with that pump when customers were using a specific aftermarket final filter. It did not do the job. I believe they changed them to a better filter shortly as IH must have let them know. I know they sent out a letter but don't recall if they named the offending filters at that time. Had one engine that would not start hot and very few hours using those filters.

Anyway, not trying to put any one down, just trying to help out a little.

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Angle Iron

11-16-2017 06:01:17




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 Re: 1086 IH in reply to DLR, 11-13-2017 12:16:13  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeYou intended to stomp on his toes and did.



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ihtimmy

11-14-2017 07:35:46




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 Re: 1086 IH in reply to DLR, 11-13-2017 12:16:13  
We can talk about this all day it comes down one thing to it today delivering the fuel Iíve seen the gear strip in the pump Iíve seen the head locked up in the pump I Seen delivery valve was bad but we can hash this out all day this week getting this tractor fixed itís easiest to just pull that the ejection pump and Injectors I know it might be a little expensive but Eric start this is the only alternative you got left your blood the filters your blood the lines and it still wonít start

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pete 23

11-14-2017 20:10:00




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 Re: 1086 IH in reply to ihtimmy, 11-14-2017 07:35:46  
He said it ran fine before he changed filters and that is what we are going with. He doesn't have it bled out.



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BarnyardEngineering

11-14-2017 04:02:14




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 Re: 1086 IH in reply to DLR, 11-13-2017 12:16:13  
"Cranking" by the way, is commonly understood to be the part where you turn on the key, push the button, and the engine goes "RRRRR-RRRRR-RRRRR."

"Firing" is the part where the engine begins to turn via the internal combustion process known as the Diesel cycle.

The diagnosis is hugely different for each of these when the word "Won't" is added before the term (Won't crank vs. Won't fire).
You need to be precise in your wording. There is no "you know what I meant" here. What you meant is completely different from what you said, and what you said has people chasing down the wrong rabbit hole looking for your problem.

My question to IHTimmy: If the injection pump is bad, how was it running fine before the filter change? They don't just instantly go bad.

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ihtimmy

11-14-2017 02:48:16




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 Re: 1086 IH in reply to DLR, 11-13-2017 12:16:13  
Pump is bad



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pete 23

11-13-2017 18:08:40




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 Re: 1086 IH in reply to DLR, 11-13-2017 12:16:13  
Well, first off you should never fill filters as that can introduce dirty fuel into pump. That is what Rustred was trying to impress on you. Those model tractors have a very good hand primer system. After installing new filters, you open bleed screw and start pumping hand pump. You may have to pump many strokes before it start sucking fuel but you will feel it when it happens. After you get fuel. Then you keep on pumping until fuel comes out of that bleeder. Close bleeder and pump another 50 to 100 strokes to clear all air from pump. Hit the starter and kaboom, away you go. Often times the primer will leak during pumping and that should be repaired but it will not keep you from getting it bled and running unless really bad. Think about 300 strokes total. The worst thing you can do with most diesel engines is get a bunch of air trapped in the pump. Luckily on these models, you can just pump that air right on out with hand pump like I said but you can have air in the injection lines to nozzles. In that case it will take a little more cranking with starter but I never had one where you had to loosen the pipes at the nozzle on these models.

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rustred

11-13-2017 17:33:50




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 Re: 1086 IH in reply to DLR, 11-13-2017 12:16:13  
there is a filter primer on these tractors, i never figure out why a person would just pour dirty fuel into the new filters. the filters are removing stuff the eye cannot see. the pump and injectors have close tolerances so why run dirty fuel threw them. everytime i would see someone do that i would say what are you doing. a little while back someone complained about dark sediment in new white oil pails... well that is normal and so is the dirty fuel you buy. kinda wondering what you mean by "will not crank , but getting smoke." has to be cranking to get smoke. its an ih not a hopeless case.

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Baelee05

11-14-2017 05:01:46




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 Re: 1086 IH in reply to rustred, 11-13-2017 17:33:50  
You know rustled there is a way to give help and constructive criticism without being a total dick about it. Pete23 accomplished that nicely. You on the other hand failed miserably. No one is questioning your knowledge or the points you were trying to make. Just tryi being a little less abrasive and confrontational about it.



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rustred

11-14-2017 05:56:43




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 Re: 1086 IH in reply to Baelee05, 11-14-2017 05:01:46  
didnt think i was a total dick about it, just try and give the correct facts without too long of a story is all. many here just give a response without any reasoning behind themselves. didnt think i was graded on creative writing. and i did reread it and dont know what you are refering to as being abrasive. all i did was throw a joke in at the end saying it was an ih not a hopeless case, meaning it will run. i think posters should be more clear on their explanations would save a lot of assuming here and be a lot easier to get to the actual problem. so have a great day everybody.

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DLR

11-13-2017 17:56:01




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 Re: 1086 IH in reply to rustred, 11-13-2017 17:33:50  
Don't understand your rambling!



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rustred

11-13-2017 20:30:22




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 Re: 1086 IH in reply to DLR, 11-13-2017 17:56:01  
ok then, i'll ramble more now... read it slower and think about it! why are u asking for help then get the proper answer from a licensed mechanic ,not like im just pulling ideas out of the air. its a totally realistic answer. this is not a carburated engine you know. maybe this 1086 just got tired of dirty fuel and its showing up in the pump. i have seen sloppy people do more damage changing filters than just leaving the old ones alone.

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DLR

11-14-2017 17:04:59




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 Re: 1086 IH in reply to rustred, 11-13-2017 20:30:22  
It was just Aaaumed that I put dirty fuel in the filters on the 1086, wrong, I have a filter system on my supply tank that is better than the new filters put on the tractor. You know what happens when you "ASSUME". All I wanted was some thoughts and ideas as to why a machine that was running fine when shut down would no longer "fire" or "crank" when the same procedure that worked for 30+ years was followed. I wind up getting a degree in mech. engineering. Really, thanks to all of you!

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rustred

11-15-2017 18:05:19




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 Re: 1086 IH in reply to DLR, 11-14-2017 17:04:59  
well you need to tell us everything in detail... just as the doctors ask questions. when no or little info is given a person has to assume some things. if those tank filters are better than the tractor filters then they MUST have a smaller micron filtering size than the tractor which i dought that for sure. that is why i said filters are taking out particles that the eye cannot see. and when repeatedly pouring unfiltered fuel into filters and running it through the pump is not the best thing to do. the pump clearances are so fine you cannot see those either. no time did i say that was the problem, i was saying that is not the correct way to change filters. i have seen filters filled up from a pail or can so many times , but that is wrong.im not preaching or rambling just trying to get a point across . if the tractor is cranking over and smoking that means it is getting fuel to the cyl's. have you tryed to give it a pull? was the engine warm or cold when trying to start it? is it cranking fast enough? how much is it smoking when cranking? cant give info till you give info back as to exactly what you have done so far. its really puzzling that you shut down the tractor , changed the filters, bled them , crank tractor over and it smokes but wont start. i could see if it was not smoking , so sum ting not rite here.

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RBoots

11-13-2017 21:13:13




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 Re: 1086 IH in reply to rustred, 11-13-2017 20:30:22  
You're right rustred, that's why new fuel filters for modern diesel engines have a plastic plug over the center tube. That way you have to pour the fuel through the filter first, so it is clean, instead of just dumping dirty fuel into injectors and such. Some people have either never worked on a common rail or newer diesel, or just been darn lucky pouring dirty fuel into the center of a filter.



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ihtimmy

11-13-2017 14:27:56




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 Re: 1086 IH in reply to DLR, 11-13-2017 12:16:13  
Injection pump need rebuilt the head is bad



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Phil Tibbetts

11-13-2017 12:52:02




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 Re: 1086 IH in reply to DLR, 11-13-2017 12:16:13  
Did you bleed the pump? If you did try loosening a couple injector lines half a turn at the injector and crank it over. Usually they will take off and then just tighten up the lines again. Be careful because there is high pressure there.



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