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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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SMTA

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Ellis Kinney

09-13-2017 17:30:56




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Got a funny little problem. The tractor has a new clutch. When the tractor is running but in neutral, warmed up, and I push the clutch in, it takes a slow count of 10 for the gears to stop turning so I can put it in gear. It did the same thing before the new clutch was installed. If the tractor is cold, just started in other words, I can put it in gear quickly. Could this have anything to do with having a T/A ? I am running 90 wt. in the transmission and I know it is thicker when cold. Thanks, Ellis

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BarnyardEngineering

09-15-2017 05:31:06




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 Re: SMTA in reply to Ellis Kinney, 09-13-2017 17:30:56  
Look, nobody says that using 90 means instant death for your TA. This, "I put 90 in my TA and drove it out to the mailbox, and it works fine," isn't proof that the manufacturer's recommendations are wrong.
You're not pulling the guts out of the tractor for 16 hours a day like it was originally designed to do. Probably, if you never use the tractor in winter and/or never shift the TA, you'll be FINE for decades, especially considering that these tractors sit most of the time, and when they are running they are doing some menial task like mowing grass or pulling a trailer. Maybe pull a plow for a garden or a few rounds at a plow day...

At least this is one case where the cheap compatible fluid is perfectly fine. There are no exotic wet clutch linings to react with. There are no other hydraulic systems to mix with. Hytran is just used because of its low viscosity.

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The tractor vet

09-14-2017 12:39:06




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 Re: SMTA in reply to Ellis Kinney, 09-13-2017 17:30:56  
Well here is your problem , (1) you are now working with and OLD piece of equipment that does not have synchronizer in the gears , they are OLD straight cut gears that need to align to go into each other and due to mass of the clutch dis and the rest of the rotating mass THINGS do not just stop when you depress the pedal same as Semi's . Now as to your running 90 wt. i am old grumpy and straight forward her YOUR NUTS , they stopped usen 90 Wt. in like 1955 or 56 may be 58 and went with the Hy Tran due to coold weather T/A slippage issues . You ru Hy Trans in the HYD. and the transmission and rear end on anything newer the the straight H and M's . So to solve your problem's (1) stop being in such a hurry and wait for the gears to stop turning and idle the engine down before depressing the clutch and(2) drain the 90 wt. out flush out and refill with Hy Tran. because the next thing we will here is MY T?A is Slipping on the low side and can i adjust this and how .

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Ellis Kinney

09-15-2017 07:34:36




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 Re: SMTA in reply to The tractor vet, 09-14-2017 12:39:06  
Tractor Vet, I do not get in a hurry with the old girl, and I ALWAYS wait for the gears to stop when it has been running in neutral. I was simply curious about why. It does just fine when shifting gears. I use the T/A on my hillsides when I want to slow down to be a little safer. I use it mainly to mow with a Land Pride 35-90. The clutch work was done by an IH dealer and I trust them. Thank You Ellis

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BarnyardEngineering

09-14-2017 04:35:20




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 Re: SMTA in reply to Ellis Kinney, 09-13-2017 17:30:56  
They're not saying this in the typical "Hytran has mystical properties, use it or your tractor will melt on a pile" sense here.

Hytran is actually necessary for the TA to work properly. IIRC the reason is because gear oil is too thick to allow the ramp and roller section to engage properly when you pull the TA lever.



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hayfarmer

09-13-2017 20:52:16




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 Re: SMTA in reply to Ellis Kinney, 09-13-2017 17:30:56  
Have you adjusted the clutch and T/A according to book. I put a new clutch plate and pressure plate in my SMTA several years ago, couldn't get it to work right. Split it again and found pressure plate was not adjusted correctly. Be sure to go through the whole adjustment of T/A and clutch. I agree that you need hytran or equivelent with T/A



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Dennis K (WA)

09-13-2017 19:31:22




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 Re: SMTA in reply to Ellis Kinney, 09-13-2017 17:30:56  
I agree with D Slater that a bad pilot bearing could cause the transmission input shaft to drag along with the flywheel.

Lighter oil will only make the problem worse not better.

Dennis



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D Slater

09-13-2017 19:22:29




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 Re: SMTA in reply to Ellis Kinney, 09-13-2017 17:30:56  
Lots of complaints on taking longer for transmission to stop turning with lighter oils, never knew of heavier oil causing your complaint. Was the pilot bearing checked or replaced with clutch. One not turning free will try to drag inside race more and that will transfer to transmission drive shaft. Normal for it to take time for gears to stop though.



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cushman

09-13-2017 18:52:50




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 Re: SMTA in reply to Ellis Kinney, 09-13-2017 17:30:56  
That is what I experience with my 400D,as there is no load on the input shaft to stop it from turning.I used to have the same thing happen as I was growing up on my dad's 400 gas back in 1959-1965.We have the same problem if we have a trans brake failure in one of our trucks.It is nothing to worry about,just be patient.



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WayneLee

09-13-2017 17:59:59




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 Re: SMTA in reply to Ellis Kinney, 09-13-2017 17:30:56  
Drain that out and put Hy-Tran in like it should have in it.



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Used red mn

09-13-2017 18:48:31




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 Re: SMTA in reply to WayneLee, 09-13-2017 17:59:59  
Yep, 90w is not good for the TA. I do suspect the heavier lube is mostly responsible for the trans shifting with less grinding or quicker when cooler. Just more resistant to the spinning gears when the clutch is released. The way to test clutch release is by shifting it into gear then shift it into neutral, then wait a couple seconds continuing to hold the clutch down. Then shift it back in gear, if no grinding, then you know the clutch is releasing properly.

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Ellis Kinney

09-14-2017 08:08:52




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 Re: SMTA in reply to Used red mn, 09-13-2017 18:48:31  
It shifts perfectly by going from gear to gear through neutral and waiting a few seconds holding the clutch down. I never hurry the shift and grind gears. As far as I can tell the tractor has never been operated with hydraulic fluid, and the T/A still functions well. It is a one family tractor, having been purchased by my Uncle in the fall of 1953. Thanks, Ellis



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dhermesc

09-14-2017 08:23:30




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 Re: SMTA in reply to Ellis Kinney, 09-14-2017 08:08:52  
When I bought my 350 20 years ago the rear end was filled with half water and half some indistinguishable type of oil (original 40 year old oil?). I refilled it using the original manual for a 300 that called for gear oil (90W?). Later I learned it should have been filled with hytran or another lighter oil. I ran it 14 years with 90W-140 then I refilled it with the cheapest "hytran" equivalent I could find. The TA works perfectly. Granted I never used the TA in the winter and very seldom in the summer. It was winter/cold weather use of the TA that prompted IH to come out with a thinner oil to be used with the TA.

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