I am looking to replace the narrow front on my 400 with a wide front. Currently there are two for sale near me: a Norden off of an M that would bolt right on or a Schwartz off of a 560. I have read the 560 front can be adapted to the 400 so I went to the A&I website and started looking at part numbers. The front saddle, steering bolster bracket and center tube appear to be the same and the rear saddle is different but a new one is still available and would be easy enough to change. However the spindles are different with the M-450 WFE having 13 7/8" tall spindles and the 560 having 11 7/8" tall spindles. Has anyone used the 560 wide front on a 400 and does it work ok with the 2" shorter spindles? Any opinions on the Norden wide front? The only reservation I have with the Norden is getting parts.
- Thread starter SgtMoe
- Start date
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
Norden is obsolete. NO parts available.
Roger Tomfohrde
Member
The 2 inches would drop the front end of your tractor with the schwartz, would need to change the rear saddle and have the correct hubs. I have had all three and felt the Norden would turn shorter, but would
not really want to put a heavy loader on it as it is a tad bit lighter in the spindles. I never had breakage on the Norden even though it was on a 706 Diesel. The two inches is because the 706-560-460 had cast
parts of the front that the bolts mount the front to that stick below the frame which an M and 400-50 don't have. The tie rod ends on a Norden can be replaced with other brands so that is not usually a
problem. I guess it all depends on your use. I did have a 560 with the Norden and a 2001 loader in it but respected the wide front so I did not break it. We broke a Shwartz on a 460 which has lighter spindles
with the same loader but was in a frozen field trying to retrieve a broke spreader. Just some ideas.
not really want to put a heavy loader on it as it is a tad bit lighter in the spindles. I never had breakage on the Norden even though it was on a 706 Diesel. The two inches is because the 706-560-460 had cast
parts of the front that the bolts mount the front to that stick below the frame which an M and 400-50 don't have. The tie rod ends on a Norden can be replaced with other brands so that is not usually a
problem. I guess it all depends on your use. I did have a 560 with the Norden and a 2001 loader in it but respected the wide front so I did not break it. We broke a Shwartz on a 460 which has lighter spindles
with the same loader but was in a frozen field trying to retrieve a broke spreader. Just some ideas.
I use the tractor for making hay and I am tired of the narrow front going down the center of the wind row when mowing and raking. I currently do not plan on putting a loader on the tractor. Both wide fronts come with 6 bolt hubs. I searched and the tie rods are still available for the Norden wide front but I wouldn't know about spindle bushings, thrust bearings or wheel bearings unless I buy it and take measurements when/if I need those parts which is why I was leaning towards the Schwartz until I saw the spindles were shorter. Might just have to wait until a Schwartz for a M-450 comes up for sale.
Lots of times a M through 450 tractor will set leveler with the 560 wide front. Depends on the tires used. Have checked before and a M with 600-16 fronts and a rear tire giving 30-1/16 inches from floor to center of rear axle and a SMTA to 450 type front axle, put the rear of frame rail around 1/4 inch lower than front of frame rail. As you can see the front end is a 1/4 inch higher in about 3 feet. Most if not all M with 13.6 x 38 won't be up to 30-1/16 at rear axle, more like 28 or 29 inches and will have a higher front end. Using some disc type wheels on the wide front will let you put enough rubber on the front to raise the front if wanted higher. Like you said the 560 rear support bolting to frame rails is to tall for a M. If your a welder cut the bottom off a 560 support the needed amount. Weld a steel plate back on for the ball socket pivot and drill the holes. Swartz turns sharper than a IH though.
caterpillar guy
Well-known Member
For raking if you drive to one side then the front end is off a windrow to rake. You can not do that for a swath though it will still be on the hay.
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
If we were anywhere near each other, I would trade you the wide front off my Super M for your narrow front, not even up mind you, but we could work something out.
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