300 u starter bendix

realolman

Member
I have a 300 u that was originally 6 v. the guy who I bought it from changed it to 12.
It always started very easily, but recently the starter often doesn't mesh with the ring gear .
I took the starter out and did some measuring and if the starter gear came out the whole way, the ring gear and the starter gear would mesh completely, so it's not getting out the whole way for whatever reason. The starter gear was boogred up for about 1/4" and the ring gear seems mostly OK it has a very slight edge on the teeth.
I thought, "Well I don't think it will hurt anything worse than it is" so I used a grinder and cleaned up the starter gear.
That seemed to work for a very few starts and then it started doing it again. Obviously the starter gear is not getting out as far as it should

Anyone have any advice?
 
There is a New replacement type of drive that has a cushion and clutch in it rather than the big spring system. It is modest in
cost, and makes life better. 20.00 or so right here on the YT tractor Channel. There is no picture but it is correct. Jim
 
thanks for your quick reply... could you be a little more specific please?. re: what part to get and where to get it ... thank you
 
You will need to remove the ring gear on the flywheel which makes splitting the tractor but your problem wont go away till its done. You can try a new Bendix but the ring gear is the cullprit.
 
(quoted from post at 22:08:58 03/11/17) You will need to remove the ring gear on the flywheel which makes splitting the tractor but your problem wont go away till its done. You can try a new Bendix but the ring gear is the cullprit.
I was afraid that is what I would have to do... BUT am I wrong in understanding that the part JNicholson refers to does NOT work like the original bendix?
According to his post, it has a cushion and a clutch... I don't know exactly what that means, but it sounds better than the original bendix. Does it remain engaged all the time... it seems to me that remaining engaged would be possible if there was some sort of one way clutch on the starter gear.
The ring gear really has very very minimal damage to it. to look at it, it looks OK... you have to feel in there with a fingernail to actually tell it. I think before I would split the tractor, I would get in there with a die grinder... if I did anything at all...
I also considered somehow putting a small spacer on the starter so that it would be cocked out away from the ring gear just slightly.. I realize that would require some sort of sealing at the starter, but to split the tractor is a big deal in my opinion.
I appreciate both of your opinions and I don't mean to argue with anyone... it just seems to me there is often more than one way to skin a cat.
thanks to both of you and if anyone has anything further to say, I would certainly appreciate it. thank you
 
I also considered drilling a hole in the housing somewhere so I could possibly see just what is going on in there When the starter is in my hand it seems that the spinning would start to send the starter gear out the shaft, and any resistance encountered engaging the ring gear would just force it to be further engaged
I can't really see why it would not work, except it caught on the ring gear somehow the starter gear seems to move on the shaft OK... if anything it is just a bit loose.. I don't know what it should feel like
 
I am inclined to try the new starter mechanism... if the shipping is reasonable, it is certainly worth 20 bucks + shipping to avoid splitting the tractor and having a more reliable starter.
 
32 bucks grand total.... worth a shot I think ... it's ordered... thanks to all who read and responded. I will let you know how it goes
 
Your problem is with the teeth meshing, not with the starter drive not coming out far enough. The teeth on the starter drive and the ring gear are worn/damaged and won't mesh right.

You should be able to clean up the teeth on the ring gear with a file, and then replace the starter drive. Which type you use really isn't that important. Just make sure there are no burrs or sharp edges on the few ring gear teeth that appear in the starter hole.

The engine tends to stop in the same position every time, so the same spot on the ring gear gets used to start the engine every time, wearing it out.

The starter drive you received is fine. For reference, this is the clutch type you should have ordered:

wm_SDR5022.jpg
 
well don't let me hangin now... what is the new drive supposed to look like? This has a gear on a threaded shaft and a large spring connecting that shaft to the starter shaft... Either this has already been upgraded before I got it or I got an original type mechanism.
46705.jpg
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thanks... that's what I thought I was ordering... I understand what you are saying about the teeth meshing, but I didn't know what I was getting because there were no pictures... I thought from the description of the clutch and cushion, that perhaps I was getting something that was engaged all the time. That's what I had hoped I was getting anyway.
 
to clarify a little, I did not see the post from barnyard engineering before I posted with the picture.I thought no one had replied.
I don't know what to do now.. I sure wanted to try the new type drive, although honestly, I don't see why there is a substantial improvement unless the gears remain meshed all the time. If they remain meshed all the time and there is a clutch to disengage the turning of the starter motor, I think I will try to get one of those
Do the gears remain meshed all the time?
 
Apparently the old saying is true..." success has many fathers... failure is an orphan"

Is one is inclined to tell me if the "improved " type starter drive remains engaged? And if it does not, what is the improvement?
thank you
 
None remain engaged. You have the original type and more teeth area will usually engage with it than the other type.
 
The clutch type starter uses a different mechanism to move the starter gear into the ring gear on the engine flywheel.

If they remained engaged, the gear ratio of the ring gear to the starter gear would cause the starter drive to spin at over 10,000RPM when the engine was running wide open. The starter drive would not last very long.
 
(quoted from post at 11:13:28 03/17/17) The clutch type starter uses a different mechanism to move the starter gear into the ring gear on the engine flywheel.

If they remained engaged, the gear ratio of the ring gear to the starter gear would cause the starter drive to spin at over 10,000RPM when the engine was running wide open. The starter drive would not last very long.

Well, Barnyard Engineering, you make an excellent point, indeed.
One that I shall kick myself for overlooking.

One thing that it does seem to me... If I am seeing this stuff correctly, the starter will remain engaged until the engine starts. I have seen a couple things on the internet where if you crank it out by hand, the only way to get it back retracted is to spin it on a wire wheel... Or, I guess, install it extended, and let the engine spin it till it retracts.
On multiple cranks without starting, the gears would only engage once.
Do I have that right?
Again thank you for your enlightenment ...
 
I am not saying this to argue because I have read enough things from you to believe that you know what you are talking about.

I am asking with the intent of trying to understand... Why would the engine tend to stop in the same place?

thank you
 
An engine always stops as it runs up on compression for one cylinder or another. For a 4-cylinder engine, this means it stops in one or the other of 2 positions, either as 1-4 are coming up towards the top of the stroke or as 2-3 are coming up towards the top of the stroke. Since things are never exactly the same on all cylinders, the engine will have a preferred stopping point on whichever cylinder has the most compression. When you look closely at a used ring gear, you can always see a short section with a lot of wear and a section opposite it with less wear. The rest of the gear will usually be near perfect. You can easily confirm this behavior by sticking a crank in and turning the engine by hand.

By the way, most 6-cylinder engines will have 3 worn sections on the ring gear, 120 degrees apart, with 1 showing most of the wear.
 
the way I read the advert in the YT catalog. it seemed to state updated type, that one is not. Barnyardengineer is correct the other one he shows is
correct. Jim
 
(quoted from post at 20:54:31 03/19/17) the way I read the advert in the YT catalog. it seemed to state updated type, that one is not. Barnyardengineer is correct the other one he shows is
correct. Jim

Hey... thanks Jim Bender and Janicholson, BarnYard Engineer and everyone who replied... I appreciate all your help...

Lanicholson, I think it would probably be a good idea if they put a picture on the items they're selling... I don't know why they don't. I appreciate your help. I contacted them about returns... if they do... good ...if they don't... good... it'll all come out in the wash.

My drawers were in a bunch there for a while because we had a big snowstorm , but it's over now and I made it through OK ...a hundred years from now, no one will know the difference.

I am going to stew over the number of places the engine is going to stop now, but I think I will probably learn something in the stew... I already have learned something through this whole thing... perhaps not just the way I'd like to learn something, but I bet I learned it well.
thank you all
 
Whoops, we missed one question.

The way a starter is supposed to work is this:

When you hit the switch, the initial spin-up of the motor slings the starter gear outward to engage the ring gear and crank the engine.

When you release the switch the momentum of the engine, running or not, kicks the starter gear, causing it to retract.

The gear should extend and retract with each press of the starter switch, if things are working as they should.
 
(quoted from post at 05:52:39 03/21/17) Whoops, we missed one question.

The way a starter is supposed to work is this:

When you hit the switch, the initial spin-up of the motor slings the starter gear outward to engage the ring gear and crank the engine.

When you release the switch the momentum of the engine, running or not, kicks the starter gear, causing it to retract.

The gear should extend and retract with each press of the starter switch, if things are working as they should.

I think I get that... thank you very much for sharing your good understanding
 

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