Farmall M stalls out in 5th

B_Watts

New User
I have a 1944 Farmall M that i cannot for the life of me get to go into 5th. It just starts to roll and then the engine stalls. I have read that you can double clutch and shift up from 4th to 5th but I don't want to tear anything up and am not all that comfortable with that idea. Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.
 
Does it do it under load or just the bare tractor ?? There is a huge jump between forth and fifth . If you live in hill country and your M is down on pony power or even if the hill is steep enough and long enough it may not top the hill in fifth , hence the NINE speeds came about to break up the gap between forth and fifth and us OLD timers we could double clutch . Now as to your problem here you could have a dozen problems that are the reason as to why it dies . So lets start at the top . (1) your engine is plum wore out due to extensive field testing and age. (2) lack of gas getting to the carb, (3) Carb needs adjusted, (4) engine timing set timing with a timing light ,(5) centrifugal advance not working or it is the old setting ,(6) engine needs a MAJOR tune up , not just plugs ad points valves need reset timing carb adjusted ,(7) may have loaded tires and this will also affect how well it will pick up in fifth, (8)Governor problems , as you do not know how many of them i have been into and fixed by installing the bushings that are missing on the two arms where the main spring goes thru . IF the two holes are big and the spring just sorta flops around in those holes you have lost up to 50% . (9) Check engine full throttle RMP's .
 
If your very computer savvy google Farmall 4th to 5th double clutch shift on YouTube. Should find something with that. Full throttle in 4th before shifting to 5th. It is quite difficult to get into 5th with no grinding even with double clutching unless your on a downhill. Tractor Vet has covered most of the other complications you may be encountering.
 
Double-clutching is not a skill that you can master on the first try, and you're going to grind some gears in the process of learning.

Don't worry, the gears on your tractor have been ground many thousands of times before. A few more times isn't going to hurt them, unless they were already too far gone to begin with. If that's the case better to find out now than down the road when you're using the tractor or need it to do something.
 
I live in flat land. Just trying it with the bare tractor. It needs rewired and will get electronic ignition and other tune up related items soon. I don't know about the timing, but it runs great as soon as I get it to start. The clutch is very touchy, so I have to ride it a little more than i would like to keep the front end on the ground. This causes the engine to lug noticeably when engaging the clutch. Thanks
 
In addition to the fine answers you have been given, have you put it under conventional load? a mold board plow or tandem disk should be able to be pulled in second or third gear. if it fails at that, it has (probably) fuel delivery issues. It should pull 5th on flat ground with 3 seconds of riding the clutch. Shifting from 4th to 5th is as described, just dont force it into 5th, it might make a bit of protest, but it will go in. Jim
 
I have not put it under a load yet. I have enough trouble getting it started. It is a tad cold blooded and so our little Oliver 550 does most of the work around here for now. I will try that. I sure hope that your idea about fuel delivery is the problem, because I do not have the funds to do a rebuild on it right now.
 
i agree that it needs to be tuned up... as any of these tractors will start out in high gear with a worn engine. it dont take much coaxing. should take off with less than 1/2 throttle.
 
Never knew an M that would start moving in 5th on level ground without slipping clutch a lot (Includes diesels.)

Always ground into 5th after getting rolling in 4th.
 
Unless it's a cranking problem being hard to start means something is off. Agree with rusted, every good running bare M that I owned would start off on hard level ground in 5th with very little trouble at maybe 1/3 throttle, some less. Fluid in tires and or a bunch of weight on adds up to make starting off harder.
 
There is no reason to double clutch fourth to fifth on an M on flat ground. In my opinion, an M has to be seriously lacking in power to not be able to start in fifth on flat ground. It doesn't take much for an H to not be able to handle it, but in stock form an M has 96 cubes more than an H so unless your dumping the clutch an M should start off fine. Yes, it requires a little slipping of the clutch but not much.

So obviously theres something wrong with the tractor. Run a compression test, then go from there. If its at least 90psi on all four and the ignition system is good and its getting gas it should start in 5th gear.
 
(quoted from post at 19:51:12 01/19/17) Unless it's a cranking problem being hard to start means something is off. Agree with rusted, every good running bare M that I owned would start off on hard level ground in 5th with very little trouble at maybe 1/3 throttle, some less. Fluid in tires and or a bunch of weight on adds up to make starting off harder.
It does have 2 sets of rear weights on but I can't see how that would affect starting off that much. As far as hard starting it always fires, but takes a while before it will stay running. I have no experience with it in the summer but I was told that it is just like that in the winter. I am hoping a tune up and maybe electronic ignition should fix that problem for good.
 
A 1944 M would have come with a magneto. If it still has a magneto you can't put electronic ignition on it.

If it fires right away, your problem isn't spark anyway.

Is the tractor running on all cylinders? It should sound smooth, not popping or chugging.

Also adjust the clutch. It sounds like it may be on its way out. The nice thing is you can change the clutch on an M of that era through the cavity where the hydraulic system mounts.
 
Richen up the mixture. Turn the bottom front load screw out one turn and see if it runs better. It should start and run with a 2
second choke then very little choke for one minute or less, then no choke. The two top screws on the carb are idle richness and
idle speed. IIRC the rear most (Idle richness turns in for richer and out for leaner. The speed screw And the richness can be
adjusted to a nice slow idle with smooth transition to higher speeds. Jim
 
I bought it with a distributor, so I can do electronic ignition. Somebody must have fried the magneto and just switched it over to battery ignition it
runs smooth as silk whe it gets running, no smoke or anything. I do need to adjust the clutch some, it will lift the front end off the ground in first if
you don't let it out real slow. It is 12v but still has original wiring so that will change soon. I need to take it to school to do the rewire which is 10
miles away and I would prefer to be able to get into road gear to get it there. It would be one heck of a long drive in high 3rd or 4th.
 
(quoted from post at 08:50:20 01/20/17) When I get home I will have to give it a turn. Thanks for the tip.

I have a '49 M with magneto. No problem starting out in 5th from even moderate throttle. On my carb, reasonable settings for the two screws are 1 turn off the seat (ccw after screwing all the way in) for idle fuel mix and 3 turns off the seated position for the main jet located on the bowl. At least those were the suggested settings that came with my rebuild kit. They seem to work well. I have not moved them since rebuilding the carb.

Does the engine run smoothly with no stuttering or missing at higher rpm? If not, the first thing to check is fuel delivery rate as mentioned above. I had a problem where sediment clogged the fuel supply hole right out of the gas tank, inside the sediment bowl. The tractor ran fine at idle, but started to miss and stutter at higher engine speeds.
 
Go along with you. I have an M and 450 and start out in 4th gear.I don't like slipping a clutch if I don't have to.
 
It runs really well. When it is cold it chugs just a little, but that clears up as soon as it warms up just a little bit. I think it might need some carb
tuning done and hopefully that helps clear up some of my problems.
 
Well i for one am OLD school and i still use POINTS and condenser . Whe ya need new points ya put them in and go about your business if the electronics go bad your screwed till ya can get a new unit , where i can FILE a set of points and guessta mate points setting to get it back to the barn the other is dead where she sets. Well as to the touchy clutch i have no idea what clutch is in it because i was not the one that put the last one in it and god only knows if the flywheel has ever been refaced .
 
Unless you are being rough on the clutch I would guess you have something not quite right. Lean fuel mixture as stated below is a possibility with either a gunked up carb or leaking intake manifold would be my first guesses. Especially if it starts well and runs fine otherwise. You just need more power in 5th and it cant produce it due to lean mixture or something else is not kosher.
 
There is a case to be made for points as well. I am not completely sold on electronic ignition yet, so a full condenser points rotor plugs tuneup will be put on for now until a final decision will be about original vs electronic ignition. I am hoping that the clutch is just an adjustment and nothing too major because i was just hoping for a working project that I could slowly spend money on and have restored in a year or two.
 
(quoted from post at 12:03:58 01/20/17) There is a case to be made for points as well. I am not completely sold on electronic ignition yet, so a full condenser points rotor plugs tuneup will be put on for now until a final decision will be about original vs electronic ignition. I am hoping that the clutch is just an adjustment and nothing too major because i was just hoping for a working project that I could slowly spend money on and have restored in a year or two.
Great news, I just have to be real easy in the clutch and give it about 3/4 throttle and it goes right in. It groans just a little but the engine barely slows down. Thanks for all of the help, now just to get on to this wiring business etc.
 
If you have the overdrive, it only works in first 4 forward gears and reverse, also you have a high speed [pto and belt pully] which is not recommended. Take it out of OD then 4th to 5th or start in fifth and slip clutch a bit.
 
My Farmall M has 13.5-32 tyres, all-cast iron rims/centres, wheel weights, water in the rear tyres, an Armstrong-Holland blade attachment and magneto ignition. I move from 4th to 5th and it works well. I do not run in 5th at full throttle/full speed - too dangerous and the tyres cost a fortune. I don't move off in 5th from zero ground speed - bad for the clutch. No 5th gear running with the grader blade attached to the frame.
SadFarmall
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