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Super M flame under light load

S

sony224422

Member
I have been trying to get my super m dialed in correctly. It has a new electronic ignition installed and I timed to have the rotor centered on the #1 plug at TDC. TDC was found by putting my finger over the #1 cylinder and spinning until i felt air come out and the pointer on the crank lined up with the line. I checked to make sure the rotor would snap back for the advance and that seems to be ok. This is my first time timing something that had the distributor off, and i had to put the distributor drive shaft back in the distributor so i wasn't sure if it was set correctly. I also noticed I cannot spin my distributor like i could on my H. I'm not sure if the pump doesn't allow it or what, but i tried tapping it with a rubber mallet and it won't move unless i take the bottom bolt out but that obviously won't let it rotate correctly. It takes a couple revolutions before she fires off but it does start and idle. I messed with the new rebuilt carb and smoothed out most of the idle for now, at least enough to get it to idle for however long I want.

I think my carb is still out of adjustment, If i pull the throttle back quickly it stumbles, blows a ton of black and then eventually gets up to speed. But it will not take off in 5th gear on flat ground and it will sputter and then it will pop and a flame will shoot out of the stack. I checked for leaks around the carb and i don't see anything, and the air cleaner has new oil in it.

I need to get some propane and go around the carb to better see if i do have leak i know that, but i think i just need to adjust my fuel screw on the bottom more. Am I on the right track or do i need to take the distributor back off and do timing?
 
With the plugs out, (neutral) and plug wires on the grounded plugs to avoid real high voltage, use a timing light to see where the light flashes when turned slowly by hand. THis
will be the static timing, Where the rotor points is + or - 4 or 5 degrees at best. Then make sure it is advancing the intended amount running at full throttle. Jim
 
(quoted from post at 06:06:07 10/27/16) With the plugs out, (neutral) and plug wires on the grounded plugs to avoid real high voltage, use a timing light to see where the light flashes when turned slowly by hand. THis
will be the static timing, Where the rotor points is + or - 4 or 5 degrees at best. Then make sure it is advancing the intended amount running at full throttle. Jim
Click to expand...


Its been a long time since I've done a timing light, let me see if i remember how to do it.

I set the clip on the #1 plug wire and point the light to the crank and see if it fires on the line thats on the pulley?

How can I adjust the timing from static once i get that if i can't spin the distributor at all? I don't get why it won't turn, it has the slotted top bolt hole and regular bottom one. My H wasn't had to spin like that. I have the live hydraulic pump in between the distributor and the engine if that matters.

How do I make sure it is advancing at full throttle? With the engine runnning or just opening the throttle to full and seeing where the rotor goes to? Sorry its been a long time and the forums have a lot of different answers
 
The tractor is running on at most 2 cylinders. and may be hitting on one more (beginning of video). If it runs like that all the time you may have the
wires wrong. 1342 Clockwise from the about 2 O'clock With #1 plug at the front of the engine.
2-1
4-3
is the pattern looking from the rear bu the brake pedals.
The distributor has two bolts with tabs under them holding it in place. (either vertical Delco, or Horizontal IH brand) If it is a magneto, it has a
slot only. Show us a picture of the distributor. jim
 
(quoted from post at 09:53:03 10/27/16) The tractor is running on at most 2 cylinders. and may be hitting on one more (beginning of video). If it runs like that all the time you may have the
wires wrong. 1342 Clockwise from the about 2 O'clock With #1 plug at the front of the engine.
2-1
4-3
is the pattern looking from the rear bu the brake pedals.
The distributor has two bolts with tabs under them holding it in place. (either vertical Delco, or Horizontal IH brand) If it is a magneto, it has a
slot only. Show us a picture of the distributor. jim
Click to expand...



This is the best picture I have now. As far as I know I put the wires on correctly. It does that when it first is under load like letting out the clutch in 5th gear and then it doesn't really do it
 
The wires in the photo appear correct, but the way it was running in the video is not close to correct. Even when it leveled out in sound, it was missing seriously. When it is idling, pull
one plug wire off of each plug (one at a time) and see if it makes a difference. If it does, it is a good cylinder and plug. if no change, it is not making power on that cylinder. When all
are checked put the plugs from firing cylinders into the non firing cylinders to see if the issue follows the plugs.. If it does put in new plugs. if not a compression check is needed. Do re
check the wire order, I can't see it well enough to find the order. The wires need to be either real copper wire, or magnetic suppression wire. Not carbon core resistor wires. Jim
 


I didn't even think about testing the plugs. They are brand new. It's all new coil and ignition but not new cap and rotor or wires. I should order new wires they are rough. I also am thinking I need to run a good ground to the coil and a good power source to the coil to be sure.

What about timing? Can it cause it to do that too?
 
Get it running correctly.

Set throttle wide open, adjust timing for max RPM, then retard a little, will be very close.
 


Get it running correctly by the carb or by trying to retime it? Sorry just want to be clear and not re do any work
 
The wires must be Zero ohms solid wire, or Magnetic suppression Spiral wound real wire (100 ohms or less). If they measure infinite ohms they are toast. if they measure in thousands of ohms
they are carbon wires (toast) A bad cap and rotor can produce the running issues you are having. Jim
 
(quoted from post at 01:54:58 10/28/16) The wires must be Zero ohms solid wire, or Magnetic suppression Spiral wound real wire (100 ohms or less). If they measure infinite ohms they are toast. if they measure in thousands of ohms
they are carbon wires (toast) A bad cap and rotor can produce the running issues you are having. Jim
Click to expand...

I was also thinking about the cap and rotor too.
 
(quoted from post at 05:56:13 10/27/16) It has a new electronic ignition installed and I timed to have the rotor centered on the #1 plug at TDC.
Click to expand...

With Electronic ignition you can [b:043e001373]NOT[/b:043e001373] run solid copper plugs wires. they will cause interference with the unit.
 
(quoted from post at 14:17:41 10/27/16)
(quoted from post at 05:56:13 10/27/16) It has a new electronic ignition installed and I timed to have the rotor centered on the #1 plug at TDC.
Click to expand...

With Electronic ignition you can [b:36af41d952]NOT[/b:36af41d952] run solid copper plugs wires. they will cause interference with the unit.
Click to expand...


None of the wires I see say if they are solid or anything. On eBay or amazon. Also the cap and rotor is different every site. It seems I need the tall one for ih distributor. Can't get to the tractor for a few days but want to get the parts here for next week. I think the rotor that I have is the one they show as a mag one
 
So I was reading more about timing and I came across this picture
v4691.jpg


And if this true, my tractor isn't at this position at tdc according to the mark on pulley and finger over the spark plug. My pulley only has one mark on it. But my positioning is more at like 12 o clock not 2 and 8 o clock like that
 
(quoted from post at 22:07:58 10/29/16) So I was reading more about timing and I came across this picture
v4691.jpg


And if this true, my tractor isn't at this position at tdc according to the mark on pulley and finger over the spark plug. My pulley only has one mark on it. But my positioning is more at like 12 o clock not 2 and 8 o clock like that
Click to expand...

Pulley should have 3 marks

Sounds like you are using the mark for pilot bearing

Verify #1 compression properly and the marks should be by the pointer
 
(quoted from post at 04:33:13 10/30/16)
(quoted from post at 22:07:58 10/29/16) So I was reading more about timing and I came across this picture
v4691.jpg


And if this true, my tractor isn't at this position at tdc according to the mark on pulley and finger over the spark plug. My pulley only has one mark on it. But my positioning is more at like 12 o clock not 2 and 8 o clock like that
Click to expand...

Pulley should have 3 marks

Sounds like you are using the mark for pilot bearing

Verify #1 compression properly and the marks should be by the pointer
Click to expand...


As far as I know supers only have one mark
 
I already have put the engine to tdc I believe by putting my finger over the number one spark plug hole and feeling compression and then lining up the pointer to the crank. I am wondering now if I should just pull the valve cover and verify the pointer and line are true tdc by making sure both valves are closed. My rotor is dead center of the #1 plug wire on the cap on the tdc set by the pointer and line with compression felt on the number 1 plug
 
(quoted from post at 12:06:26 10/30/16)
You do not know if the piston is at the top.....

Pull the plug and be sure it is at the top.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you're not understanding that I have done that. I have pulled the plug and put my finger over the hole to feel for compression. And then moved the line the tiny bit to line up the marks on the pointer and crank pulley
 
(quoted from post at 15:30:56 10/30/16)
(quoted from post at 12:06:26 10/30/16)
You do not know if the piston is at the top.....

Pull the plug and be sure it is at the top.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you're not understanding that I have done that. I have pulled the plug and put my finger over the hole to feel for compression. And then moved the line the tiny bit to line up the marks on the pointer and crank pulley
Click to expand...

You keep talking about the pointer......

Look in the plug hole and see if the piston is really at the top.
 

You keep talking about the pointer....

Pull the plug and be sure the piston is at TDC.

Also did it ever run right?????
 


The pointer on the front of the engine that lines up the with the mark on crank pulley. I did this after I pulled the plugs and felt for the compression stroke. I rotate the engine a fraction of a rotation to get those lined up. Are you saying when I have that all set like that to find out if that is actually top dead? If so I think I'll pull the valve cover for that, I'm sure it needs a valve adjustment anyways.

Yes it ran when pulled apart. I pulled the distributor to find out why I couldn't turn it all to help time for the electronic ignition and when I did that the drive shaft came out and that's where I got lost and confused. I have put I back in so that the rotor is in the middle of the number 1 spark plug boot on the cap. But I'm not sure if that's right. I know the advance works and snaps back if I twist it
 
(quoted from post at 16:37:22 10/30/16)

Yes it ran when pulled apart. I pulled the distributor to find out why I couldn't turn it all to help time for the electronic ignition and when I did that the drive shaft came out and that's where I got lost and confused. I have put I back in so that the rotor is in the middle of the number 1 spark plug boot on the cap. But I'm not sure if that's right. I know the advance works and snaps back if I twist it
Click to expand...

Did it run [b:cf830c663a]right i[/b:cf830c663a]s the question????????????

It is no where near right in your video.

Maybe do a compression check on the engine too.[i:cf830c663a][/i:cf830c663a]
 


I'm pretty sure you haven't read half of what I said. But to answer you, again, yes it ran fine before converting it from 6 volt and to electronic ignition. I was tired of replacing the battery and points because it's not used often.

And I don't need to see the piston if I can see the valves. I can tell if it's on the compression stroke by the valves both being closed.
 
(quoted from post at 16:49:53 10/30/16)

And I don't need to see the piston if I can see the valves. I can tell if it's on the compression stroke by the valves both being closed.
Click to expand...

Good luck, I am done with this.

You may want to research how to static time one of these.
 
Sony, what Kevin is trying to say is you need to make sure the piston is not just on the compression stroke and at TDC according to the mark on the pulley. You must verify that it is precisely TDC on compression to rule out any discrepancies with the pulley or pointer. Just remove the spark plug and shine a light in the hole. Rotate the engine until the piston is all the way up on compression. Don't pay attention to the mark. After you got the #1 piston TDC by looking at the piston then set the static timing. The mark could be off by a couple of degrees. What you did didn't work so you need to try this to eliminate some possibilities. In the time it takes you to type that you can do this by looking at the valves and checking the mark you could have removed the plug and verified.
 
(quoted from post at 17:12:12 10/30/16) Sony, what Kevin is trying to say is you need to make sure the piston is not just on the compression stroke and at TDC according to the mark on the pulley. You must verify that it is precisely TDC on compression to rule out any discrepancies with the pulley or pointer. Just remove the spark plug and shine a light in the hole. Rotate the engine until the piston is all the way up on compression. Don't pay attention to the mark. After you got the #1 piston TDC by looking at the piston then set the static timing. The mark could be off by a couple of degrees. What you did didn't work so you need to try this to eliminate some possibilities. In the time it takes you to type that you can do this by looking at the valves and checking the mark you could have removed the plug and verified.
Click to expand...

Okay I can try that. Now if I do have to change it, should the rotor point exactly in the middle of the number 1 spot on the cap? Or is it a little before or like 1/4th the way? I still can't figure out why I can't turn it to advance or retard timing.
 
i looked at your picture a little closer. Just infront of the distributor (where the points are housed) there is a bolt right out in the open on the outside. Loosen that bolt a few turns. There is another bolt on the opposite side between the block and the distributor, it needs to be loosened also. It can be tough to get to and you might need to remove the coil to get at it. This should allow you to rotate the dist. Double check the plug wires are in the correct order. They should go in a clockwise order when facing the dist from the tractor seat. The firing order is stamped in the block.
 

I appreciate that.. i have checked the firing order i know thats correct. How ever i cannot rotate it with the bolts loose. I can rotate it with the [b:1b9e01f880]bottom[/b:1b9e01f880] bolt out but it won't rotate other wise. I will take some better pictures tonight. I'm not sure if its the pump or rust somewhere or something. I did get my new cap, rotor, plugs, and plug wires in though so I am going to try to do that tonight
 
Are you trying to rotate the distributor AND the pump somehow?

There is no bottom bolt where you rotate the distributor. They are on the left and the right. Right where the distributor necks down.
 
(quoted from post at 10:02:22 11/01/16) Are you trying to rotate the distributor AND the pump somehow?

There is no bottom bolt where you rotate the distributor. They are on the left and the right. Right where the distributor necks down.
Click to expand...

You know what I bet I am. I can't remember now. I'll take pictures tonight
 
(quoted from post at 12:12:50 11/01/16)
(quoted from post at 10:02:22 11/01/16) Are you trying to rotate the distributor AND the pump somehow?

There is no bottom bolt where you rotate the distributor. They are on the left and the right. Right where the distributor necks down.
Click to expand...

You know what I bet I am. I can't remember now. I'll take pictures tonight
Click to expand...


So I figured I'd update. I replaced the rotor, and plug wires and saw that all the plug wires were cracked and I could see spark jumping off and across the old ones. I realized I have been trying to turn the wrong part I don't know how I got confused other than the pump has an adjustment on it too. So anyways, it fired right up and was idling so I turned the distributor until it sounded smooth and adjusted the carb to idle a little lower and set the load screw. It puffs a little tiny bit of gray when it's snapped back and will take off in 5th gear now. So thank you everyone who helped.

 
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