Super A Charging Issues, Again...

scott#2

Member
I am having a problem. I have been through the cheap TS regulators and finally got a new one from the dealer and the charging system worked right for a couple of years. It's a stock 6 v pos ground system with the original generator (2 posts, F AND A) and a 4 post regulator.

When I fired it up this year, it wouldn't charge, so I flashed it and it still wouldn't charge. I took the gen off, removed the brushes and ran some continuity checks to ground to see if any thing was shorting out. I found some troubleshooting hints on line and put it all back together and now it charges, a bit too much.

At the generator, from a to ground, when running with leads off the generator, I am reading 1.7 to 1.8 volts output (so far, so good, maybe a little low...) When I monitor the battery voltage while it all connected and running, it is charging and if I let it run, it gets up to 8 volts at the battery and shows no sign of cutting out. The voltage at the battery will go from 6.5 up to 8+ when I sit there and watch it at 2/3 throttle. When I pull the throttle back, it drops down to 6.5 or thereabouts.

It's charging real good now, enough to burn all the water out of the battery if I run it at any length of time with the light off. The only way I can keep it below 7 volts at the battery is if I am running the lights.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Scott
 
(quoted from post at 19:49:08 10/26/16) I am having a problem. I have been through the cheap TS regulators and finally got a new one from the dealer and the charging system worked right for a couple of years. It's a stock 6 v pos ground system with the original generator (2 posts, F AND A) and a 4 post regulator.

When I fired it up this year, it wouldn't charge, so I flashed it and it still wouldn't charge. I took the gen off, removed the brushes and ran some continuity checks to ground to see if any thing was shorting out. I found some troubleshooting hints on line and put it all back together and now it charges, a bit too much.

At the generator, from a to ground, when running with leads off the generator, I am reading 1.7 to 1.8 volts output (so far, so good, maybe a little low...) When I monitor the battery voltage while it all connected and running, it is charging and if I let it run, it gets up to 8 volts at the battery and shows no sign of cutting out. The voltage at the battery will go from 6.5 up to 8+ when I sit there and watch it at 2/3 throttle. When I pull the throttle back, it drops down to 6.5 or thereabouts.

It's charging real good now, enough to burn all the water out of the battery if I run it at any length of time with the light off. The only way I can keep it below 7 volts at the battery is if I am running the lights.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Scott

Do you have the correct regulator or cutout?
 
What is the Delco tags # do you have th rite reg for that gen its very important to have the correct reg to match the gen you dont have a match or you wouldnt have a problem. Where did you get the reg thats important also you dont say i need a reg for a SA you need the Delco # on the tagasver the yrs many mistakes have been made repritning part #s. I find that Car Quest has the best info and they are USA made.
 
All I know is that when I did the ground up resto on this tractor, it had the original gen and vr on it. It was charging perfectly for a couple of years and then all of a sudden it goes casters up on me, replaced the reg and it worked again, then that one went bad in very short order (Tractor Supply unit, Chinese, 6 months). I am pretty sure I now have the correct and matching reg/gen combination on it now as it run fine for a few years now and the reg came from the dealer and they said it was what I needed, it is for a 2 post 6v generator. It always cut out and took care of the battery properly, this is the reg that's on it now. There are no tags or numbers to be had off of the generator. I'll look on the reg for some numbers.

Thing is, this reg worked fine for a couple years and now its on the fritz. I do work this machine now, so the charging system has some hours on it, probably 80 hours a year.

This combo has worked fine for the past few years and now it's over charging all of a sudden.

Thanks Guys
 
The first thing to do is go over all your ground connections and make sure they are clean and conduct without resistance. Make sure the small ground jumper (usually a braid) on the regulator base is good. A voltage regulator without a good ground won't work right. If this doesn't fix it, I hesitatingly suggest the next paragraph.

I hate to tell somebody to take the cover off their voltage regulator. People are more likely to cause damage rather than repair anything. That said, take the cover off the regulator. You will find 2 coils with contact points at/near their top (or outer end). One set of points will be open, the other closed. Closely and carefully verify that the closed points can be gently pushed open, are not welded shut. If they are stuck, carefully pry them open without bending anything. Use a point file to clean them. Do not use abrasive paper. If you do that, you might as well save yourself some effort and throw it away now.
 
That's exactly what I did Jim. I used a burnishing stick and that got it charging reliably again but now it charges all the time. Before I burnished the contacts and after I reinstalled the brushes and ran it again, it was charging erratically, the amp gage would be bouncing all over the place, sometimes charge, sometimes discharge, made no diff whether the lights were on or off. After a while of fiddling with the relays, pushing them closed and open, I decided to burnish them a bit, only a few passes got it to charge reliably but now it over charges.

I am beginning to think the genny output is too low (bad field or arm) and its not putting out enough current for sensing. The fact that the volts read at the battery go up and down with the throttle tells me its a gen problem. All the connections are clean, scraped and grounded, including the braid on the reg. Next...
 
The output cannot be to low if the voltage is 8. The set of points in the regulator (smaller set) control voltage. The generator has no sensing mechanism it is dumb. Taking a tiny bit of tension out of the spring (adjust the mount, there are several ways they are made) to lower the voltage. you can do it while it is running if you are careful not to short things to ground. Remember that the actual voltage will change a little with the lid on the regulator, it modifies the magnetism inside the VR. Jim
 
Plus one on what JAN said.

The generator output depends on how fast it is turning. So it is normal for the output voltage to drop off as the engine is throttled down. Anywhere close to low idle speed and the voltage will drop down to whatever the battery voltage is.
 
It mounts below, on the engine. I have it wired exactly as the Farmall service manual calls for.

One thing I am reading is that these tractors user either a vr, a cutout, or a headlight resistor. Mine has both and that's the way it has been from the beginning, also, this is a 3 brush genny and I haven't seen how to adjust the 3rd brush yet.

If 8+ volts going to the battery is ok, I guess I will leave it alone. Thing is, it wont cut out no matter how long it charges. I will try adjusting the spring rate on the small vr coil and see what tat gets me.

One thing is for sure, you can run this thing all the time at 1/2 or better throttle with the lights on and the battery will always be in good shape. Maybe I should just run it that way to keep the constant charging volts somewhere around normal, even though its not right.

Scott
 
Looking back on things, I am guessing that it wasn't charging until after I dragged the burnishing tool across the contacts of both relays, then it was charging well up into the 8 volt plus range.

I have done what Jan suggested and now it charges around the 6.7 range at the battery, I haven't let it run for an hour to see how high the charge rate might go though, not yet anyways, only for 10 min or so. Same thing when I turn the lights on, it dips and then goes back up to 6.7/6.8 or so.

When I cut it off, the batt voltage settles back down to 6.5/3, etc.

Looks like that was all it needed. One thing though, I don't see this regulator cutting off all together, following supply/demand. The meter is always just a tad into the charge range. I will probably install a volt meter on the tractor to monitor the voltage in case it decides to go haywire again and burn the battery up.

I guess the regulator had slight issues from the very beginning.

So far, so good, Thanks All,

Scott
 
As Gene said, there were 2 systems used on the Super A. One of them (early) used a cut-out mounted on top of a 3-brush (adjustable) generator AND a resistor control mounted on a 4-position light switch. The other (late) used a voltage regulator mounted below a 3-brush (non-adjustable) generator and a 3-position light switch that was not connected to the generator field. Either light switch has a resistor for dim headlights.

These two systems are wired differently. You are indicating a combination of parts from each system. What parts do you have and which way is it wired?
 
I have what you stated below and it is wired correctly as per the manual.

The other (late) used a voltage regulator mounted below a 3-brush (non-adjustable) generator and a 3-position light switch that was not connected to the generator field. Either light switch has a resistor for dim headlights.

It is not connected to the field and since I see no way to adjust that 3rd brush, I have the non adjustable brush genny.

I think I solved the problem, I wrote it up in a post below this morning. The gen needed a little tweaking, I believe...
 
Thanks, Ammeters can be off some when the engine is off. The reading is an approximation at best. (It is not A Fluke Professional Meter) if it moves to the right when running (more at first, then just a little to the right (one eighth inch)) do not fret the small off Zero mark needle. Jim
 

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