Super C charging, is it always supposed to show +?

Hey guys, having a hell of a time with my '54 Super C charging system. I recently had the sleeves and pistons replaced and got it back only to have an issue with the charging system. I knew it was leaking coolant into the crank case so I had not used it since last fall.

I put a new replacement battery in February. I went to use the tractor this weekend and tractor would start fine, run for 20-30 min and start to run real rough. Couple times it quit, other times I shut it off. Tractor would not restart, battery was dead. Recharge battery and good to go for another short period of time.

Tractor had a everything new from Brillman regarding the electrical system approx 1.5 years ago. Never had an issue running the lights or anything. I called Brillman and asked for some ideas and suggested to look for broken, cut wires and explained the importance of clean grounds. Spent few hours doing so, nothing out of the ordinary and same out come.

I had a generator redone from them for my BN(and never installed it yet) so I put it on, nothing. Had another regulator from my other Super C and boom started to charge! Swapped original generator and nothing again, so both parts must have issues?

With my amp gauge in the + side now, I proudly drive down the road to a nearby field trying to see if I can mimic what happened earlier. What I noticed is the amp gauge slowly went from + then right in the middle, then to -. Get home after about 25 min and shut it off, battery dead again.

Last ditch effort this evening, I swap the battery off my other tractor and same thing happened. However it did fire right up afterwards. Start back up, still in the -. I left the tractor sit for a few hours and fire it up no problem, and starts to charge again!!

Im starting to loose my mind lol. I know this is a long story but I have tried so many different things. I just want to be able to use this thing after getting the new sleeves done. Is the amp gauge always supposed to show +? Or only after start up? I plan on calling Brillman some point tomorrow for more troubleshooting tips but didnt know if I am over looking something? Oh, and yes I have polarized the generator too. Thanks!
 
The gen from the BN will not work on the SCs system as its a three brush desighned for a different system.You need to have the gen# on the SC and make sure the reg is made for it then have gen grounded to the frame and reg grounded to the gen mite need to take the SC gen and reg to the shop for a checkout.
 
A fully charged battery will run the tractor for a day or so with no generator at all. With that fact in mind, I suggest that it has a heavy
drain on the system. Starting with a fully charged battery (of Known performance), try the following. (reconnect the components after each
test except the battery non ground terminal and test light)
1) with the non ground battery terminal disconnected, and all lights and ignition off, put a test light between the terminal and the post. It
should not light at all. If it does, there is a device drawing current. If not skip to 3)
2) disconnect the Voltage regulator Bat terminal (make sure it does not touch anything). If no light, the voltage regulator;s cutout relay is
closed allowing battery drain through the generator. (to be sure, reattach that wire, and disconnect the Arm (or Gen) terminal on the
regulator. If no light the cutout is stuck.
2b) if 2 had no effect, and the light is still on, remove the fuse on the panel. If the light goes out, the lights have a short to ground.
2c) If the light stays on, the next step is to take the wire off of the ignition switch (from the amp meter) if the test light goes out the
switch might be bad (it is supposed to be off!)
2d) disconnect the big wire on the starter switch while keeping it touching the smaller wire going to the amp gauge. If the test light goes
out, the starter switch is grounding out on the starter frame, or the switch is in contact with the starter stud, trying to make the starter
run. Bad switch, or placement of the switch in relation to the stud.

3) If the light does not light (from step 1) connect the barrery adn start it. Charging voltage should be 7.1 to 7.2 volts at 3/4 throttle.
If yes it is charging. The voltage should stay at the 7.1 range as the engine runs and the gauge goes to near the middle. If the amp gauge
goes to discharge even with the voltage OK, there is a intermittant short to ground in a wire. Intermittant issues can be chaeced as #1 by
wiggling the wires while watching the test light. Jim
 
I'll add- take the generator to the shop for testing
and have THEM pair it up with a new regulator to
make sure it works. Regulators are junk now. Some
never work out of the box, some overcharge, and
some work for a few months. They are the reason
everything here is an alternator. By the time you get
a couple of regulators you could have paid for a
whole 12 volt system. I'm betting regulator.
 
You've got a BAD short somewhere in the system to drain the battery in 20-30 minutes!

I bet if you pull one cable off the battery and put it back on you get a heck of a spark.

Feel around for HOT wires or electrical connections.

This is not something to mess around with. Find it and fix it ASAP. There is the very real possibility of the heat catching something on fire. Need I say more?
 
(quoted from post at 13:50:53 06/13/16) You've got a BAD short somewhere in the system to drain the battery in 20-30 minutes!

I bet if you pull one cable off the battery and put it back on you get a heck of a spark.

Feel around for HOT wires or electrical connections.

This is not something to mess around with. Find it and fix it ASAP. There is the very real possibility of the heat catching something on fire. Need I say more?

I agree that it is odd for draining the battery that quickly, but then again I am unsure if that battery is "good". It was new in February but I guess that doesn't mean much these days. I don't get a spark or zap while connecting battery cables, unless the kill switch is out(juice for the coil?).

I put a different battery in and I had no problem restarting after my 30 min ride. I then tried later that evening and spun right over. I checked over every wire, took off components to see behind them and saw nothing unusual with the wiring. Only thing that was reused was the light switch. Could that be an issue?
 
I think the new battery is bad. I also think the voltage regulator might be flakey. Did you do the tests described in my
response? Jim
 
jakebrake, in my experience, the primary culprit is the regulator. As noted earlier, it's getting hard to find a "good" regulator. The older one on my SA took a lot of tinkering to make it work "OK" for a few years, and even then it didn't work as well as it should have. When it finally got really bad, it was discharging the battery even when running full throttle. This wasn't a "restoration" tractor, but a working one, so going 12V with an alternator was a lot less trouble than trying to keep a 6V generator system working.
 
Okay, I was able to go and do some more troubleshooting today. I spoke with Brillman and he asked me to check the original generator that was on the tractor and look inside to see if there was a black carbon build up from over working. Checked and nothing.

I got my hands on a multimeter, and he instructed me to check battery voltage with tractor off. Then start and check while gauge was showing "+" and then to check when it was in the "-". So my numbers are a bit different than what he said to look for but I did find it interesting.

Brillman said batt voltage should be ~12.8 and I got 12.5 with tractor off. He suggested once it was showing charge, it should be 13.5-14.5 but I only got around 12.8. As I did my usual round, sure enough it slowly began to go from + to - and I checked the voltage, and it was 12.4ish. Got home after letting it idle for a while and shut the tractor off. Tractor was able to fire right back up no issue.

I decided to see what the voltage was when the kill switch was pulled out, and it was 12.2. So, although it shows - on the gauge, it still is putting out more than it takes to run the coil? I might just go and throw on an alternator for reliability etc.

With the info I gather tonight, I dont feel that there is a short, or bad wiring on the tractor? I should have charged the battery to 100% and see what the voltages would be then.

Another note, from what I've gathered with all your comments it seems the VR is a common issue. This VR has been on my other Super C not hooked up in the weather for number of years. Could just be it isnt in tip top shape either?

Thanks for everyones time!
 
1. Your battery wasn't fully charged. That's why it only read 12.5V.
2. The charging system isn't working properly. That's why it only went up to 12.8V.

Ground the F terminal on the generator and see if it charges at full capacity. That will tell you if the generator is okay, but the regulator, or wiring to the regulator, or grounding, is a problem.

Also take a look at John T's Generator Troubleshooting procedure:
http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=jd&th=456133
 

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