Farmall 450-what have I done ??

I just bought a Farmall 450 gasoline to use on a small farm. It cranked fine several times before I bought it, no bottom end noises when cold, revved up and no heavy smoke. The owner said it was a solid tractor and used little oil and leaked less. He didn't pressure wash it, saying he wanted me to see what I was getting. The front tires are bad and need replacing, rear 90%. It has been converted to 12v, positive ground, and has a new battery, although a small one, walmart brand. I checked the oil and its between full and add.

Wednesday I picked it up and trailered it 2 1/2 hours. I cranked it to unload it and forgot to turn on gas; it ran less than a minute and died. I turned on the gas and it started again, ran a few seconds and died again. Then the motor wouldn't turn over; the starter only bumped when engaged.

A guy helping us said the motor had locked up...I told him to be quiet! We used another tractor and pulled the farmall off the trailer and it still wouldn't start. Pecked on the starter with hammer, nothing! We pushed the tractor a cpl feet in gear trying to see if starter bendix was stuck, no change.

Then we tried to pull start the tractor; the motor refused to turn over in all of the 5 gears. Now I'm starting to sweat as I keep hearing the motor is locked up from bystanders!

I pull the starter, praying it isn't working and the source of problems. It wasn't the problem; I grounded it and shorted the solenoid to the neg wire and the starter engaged and turned fine. I install the starter and nothing, it just bumps when engaged. I'm scared cause everyone is saying the motor is locked up and I have some expensive lawn art!!

The tractor didn't come with a crank, I thought I wouldn't need one; oh how wrong I was! I put a pipe wrench on the crankshaft pulley and shoved, thinking a 60 yr old motor wouldn't have THAT much compression. It didn't move so I put my foot on it and shoved harder. The motor pushed past what I'm certain was TDC and moved freely.

I started the motor no problem and drove it around, killing and cranking it several times.

SO...what the hack happened? I'm thinking the battery doesn't have enough cranking amps to start the motor from top dead center, or the starter is dragging.

I don't have a manual, there is what looks like an oil spout at the rear of the starter, but someone said its a vent. Which is it ?

Any info is welcomed.

ET
 
Not sure but did you happen to have the T/A lever back when pulling it. After a serial number break 450 gas were 12 volt positive ground.
 
Does it run now?? will it start NOW ??? does it make any noises now like a elf inside with a sledge hammer yelling let me out ??? Then don't worry about it . What happened was the started locked in and locked up everything and once you pulled the started it unlocked and everything is fine now. Now as for me i would go buy a group 27 battery and i would switch the two wires on the back of the amp gauge switch the two wires on the coil change out the regulator and repolrize it once i got the new battery in and make it a NEG ground system and run it .
 
Never a good idea to try to pull start something when the engine seems to be locked up or you can damage major high $$ stuff in the engine. That said I bet if you had pulled the plugs out you would have found one cylinder had hydro locked on you because of gas or oil and it was at TDC once you got it past TDC it freed up. As for battery size I have used lawn mower batteries in tractor and as long as they start easy it was enough battery but a battery can be weak and need charged which would also do like you had it do
 
Could be as simple as starter gear and ring gear locked up like two dogs after doing you know what. Unbolt starter and if you hear a little CLICK when you pull it out fine. As others said if it's locked for any reason don't pull it around like a tree stump.
 
Hopefully the starter drive just restuck after you put it back on. The drives can be finicky on these old Farmalls. Otherwise it could have been a price of carbon came loose and got on top of the piston or even a dirt dauber nest got sucked in the intake. Usually there would be some noise in the engine after a start up following one of those possible scenarios that would quit after a short time. Would not be a bad idea to check for clear air intake from the air precleaner all the way to the carb inlet. Certainly if it happens again and you pull the starter and the engine is still locked (test by putting in 5th gear TA forward and rock back tire watching fan for movement) pull the spark plugs to make sure one of the cylinders is not full of coolant. Also the quick method to unstick the starter drive is to loosen all 3 starter mount bolts and rock engine in gear as stated above. Listen for a clunk of the drive disengageing and fan movement. Then retighten starter. My 2 cents!
 
Those engines can be built up with pretty high compression so don't discount it as being a tired old machine until you run some tests.

I'm with tractor vet though. If it starts, runs and doesn't make any funny noises, all you can do is stop worrying and run it. What will be will be.

The alternative is an expensive teardown where you may or may not find anything obviously wrong. If you find nothing obviously wrong, then you will be forced to rebuild the engine "just in case." Lots of money and time for possibly no reason.
 
(quoted from post at 07:58:50 04/22/16) Not sure but did you happen to have the T/A lever back when pulling it. After a serial number break 450 gas were 12 volt positive ground.

I'm pretty sure the T/A lever was forward...so it wasn't in direct drive, correct ?
What's the pros and cons of a positive ground system?

Thanks
 
(quoted from post at 08:44:05 04/22/16) Does it run now?? will it start NOW ??? does it make any noises now like a elf inside with a sledge hammer yelling let me out ??? Then don't worry about it . What happened was the started locked in and locked up everything and once you pulled the started it unlocked and everything is fine now. Now as for me i would go buy a group 27 battery and i would switch the two wires on the back of the amp gauge switch the two wires on the coil change out the regulator and repolrize it once i got the new battery in and make it a NEG ground system and run it .

Yes, it runs now, as I stated in my post. The motor sounded fine, no bottom end or loose rod sounds before I bought it or after it started running again. AFTER I removed and replaced starter it still wouldn't budge, it took me standing on a pipe wrench to turn motor over.
 
When the motor locked up,first thing you should do is pull the spark plugs.If you try to pull start it you could bend your rods if something was on top of the pistons,so that is why you would want to pull plugs first.You have to have the T/A handle forward(direct drive) to pull start.I would check coolant level,I would have suspected coolant on top of a piston before anything else.If it was gas it would take several minutes to flood a cylinder and gas would be running out of the carb.
But like others have said,if it sounds ok now use it.Your battery may be too weak,and I'm with the vet change it to positive ground just as he says.Also 1 small squirt (few drops) of oil in the lube port for the starter bushing.Mark
 
(quoted from post at 10:05:48 04/22/16) Hopefully the starter drive just restuck after you put it back on. The drives can be finicky on these old Farmalls. Otherwise it could have been a price of carbon came loose and got on top of the piston or even a dirt dauber nest got sucked in the intake. Usually there would be some noise in the engine after a start up following one of those possible scenarios that would quit after a short time. Would not be a bad idea to check for clear air intake from the air precleaner all the way to the carb inlet. Certainly if it happens again and you pull the starter and the engine is still locked (test by putting in 5th gear TA forward and rock back tire watching fan for movement) pull the spark plugs to make sure one of the cylinders is not full of coolant. Also the quick method to unstick the starter drive is to loosen all 3 starter mount bolts and rock engine in gear as stated above. Listen for a clunk of the drive disengageing and fan movement. Then retighten starter. My 2 cents!

I'm starting to think that a dirt dauber nest could be the culprit. Thinking about it, according to the seller the tractor stayed in the same 5 square miles its entire life and never been hauled until I bought it and trailered it 110 miles away. So its very likely a nest in the intake dislodged. My next step is to look at air intake and see what's going on in there.

Does anyone have a pdf of the owner manual? A little help is welcomed.
Thanks
 
Lever forward is direct drive and engine won't turn pulling it if lever is back is the reason I ask. Never park with lever back because the tractor can roll away. Don't go down a hill with lever back as it can also run away if the brakes won't stop it. In so cases the t/a can be over speeded and fail with lever back on a downgrade.
Some electrical fellows post sometimes and in the past discussed pros and cons of different grounds. Maybe one will post. If tractor still has a generator I see no advantage to change the ground. Grounds corrode inside the battery box so it wouldn't hurt to check if having slow cranking.
 
Check the ground wires at battery and solenoid.
Interesting that you say it was converted to 12V.
My 450 is originally 12V.
something needs to be cleaned if you heard no noise prior.
 
D-Slater I am thoroughly confused. tractordata says it'll run fastest in direct drive, and slower in t/a. I grew up with standard shift trucks and no parking brakes, am very used to parking in low gear or reverse.
So bottom line is I should park it in its lowest gear and torque amplifier engaged or not ?

The brakes are in poor shape and will be addressed next, after front tires.

Thanks for your assist.
 
The TA in that series tractor is free wheeling when the lever is back. It will run away down hill. never put it in an
unloaded position that allows it to be pushed, or find gravity options that would let it go faster than it would go in that
gear with the stick forward. The TA inner components can over speed and come apart. Low gears and TA ahead is fubdamental
to parking. Jim
 
You know,your theory about something in the intake may have merit.I don't think coolant would have got on top of a piston that fast,and only once,but I would never want to try and force a locked up engine to turn over without relieving compression-in your case-removing spark plugs.Any unknown engine should have the air intake system checked anyway,to make sure it is sealed back to the filter,and no dirt can enter the engine.
If there is coolant getting into a cylinder,possible head/head gasket.Mark
 
I have been to tractor shows and have seen tractors parked with the T/A handle pulled back.It makes me cringe,I just feel the owner does not know what the handle is for,and that the tractor could roll away.Mark
 
I'm with Red. If it hasn't been run in a long time, its not uncommon for a wad of carbon to break loose. I wouldn't worry if it sounds ok now. Pulling it was risky, but now you don't have to pull the head. Nice tractor, wishing you continued good luck.
 
(quoted from post at 15:47:48 04/22/16) I have been to tractor shows and have seen tractors parked with the T/A handle pulled back.It makes me cringe,I just feel the owner does not know what the handle is for,and that the tractor could roll away.Mark

When I saw the tractor for sale on C/L I did some research and learned of the torque amp...I asked the seller if he used it much and he said "you mean that isn't the emergency brake! " he really had less of an idea than I do.

As a teen I helped a neighbor plow and drill 80 acres every year with his LP Super M. My dad had a 1937 John Deere mod A you cranked by hand.. we worked several acres with drag type implements. So the 450 is a big step up for me
 
Welcome to the forum and to a nice modern tractor. The newest tractor has no advantage over a 450. The 450 is even better
as it is simple and has little electronics or fail prone parts. It is one of my favorite IH tractors in the HP category.
Jim
 
(quoted from post at 18:30:52 04/22/16) Welcome to the forum and to a nice modern tractor. The newest tractor has no advantage over a 450. The 450 is even better
as it is simple and has little electronics or fail prone parts. It is one of my favorite IH tractors in the HP category.
Jim

Thanks for the help everyone, and the kind words about my "new" tractor. I grew up on a farm, my brother has a super MD that's slowly going to pieces due to broken 2nd gear. We did a LOT of farm work, actually all of it with a pair of mules for years. Dad bought them for trail rides and wagon trains and thought if he was gonna feed them they need to work too. He felt the same way about us also! :)

I used my neighbors IH 4210 for the last 10 years at my dads 30 acre farm, but he moved and I lost use of the tractor.

I need a manual for this model, it'll stop me from asking elementary questions.

Any recommendations for a manual? I notice this site doesn't have a owners manual, just a shop manual which I don't think is necessary at this point.

Again, all help is welcomed.

ET
 
This site sells a lot of IHC manuals like the Operator's Manual and a Parts Catalog which you will find very useful in identifying parts and assembly sequences. If they don't have what you are looking for Binder Books in Oregon is your best bet as they specialize in IHC originals and reprints which are very high quality. Good luck with your tractor and as noted by Jim the 450 isn't that much behind currently produced models and much simpler in what they were built to perform, Hal.
 
Check your battery cables Someone could have replaces them with wimpy auto cables. The cable to the starter should be at least 5/8 inches in diameter, even better 11/16. To get them right use "zero" or double zero welding cable and install/solder proper connectors.
 

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