H with a stuck engine

AKoz

New User
I am helping a neighbor sell some H's her husband left her. This H was driven to its latest resting place about 5 years ago. It was covered early on but not lately. It has always had a muffler with the flap on top. Now the engine seems to be stuck. I dropped an endoscope into the cylinders through the spark plug hole and took these pictures. These are the cylinders 1-4 from left to right, facing the tractor. My guess is that #3 is the culprit with some rust in there. Is there someone out there with some experience that can comment on the condition of the cylinders and their "stuckness" based on these photos. I have read up on the methods of loosening them.
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If it were me I'd go the budget route first, soak it, if it moves any put it in 5th and gently rock her back and forth. The
rings might scrape off the rust if it's not too bad. Don't try to break it loose too hard you may break something if rusted
real bad.
 
Pull the plugs out one at a time then fill with ATF and let it sit a wek or so. Put the plugs back in to keep dirt etc out. Then after a week set a 12 volt battery in pull the plugs and use short fast taps on the starter button and it is likely to spin over and make a mess due to the ATF that is left shooting out of the cylinder but ti works most of the time
 
Thanks guys. In case I do the starter vs. rocking method, were you specifying 12V regardless if its a 6V system?
 
I am guessing they think the 12v will give more "ooommphh"
And it is not going to hurt anything.

The ground should be positive though. Unless it has been changed.

Gene
 
I restored a John Deere 420 about 20 years ago that had similar conditions. Once the motor was free, it ran pretty well. I had to pull the head and replace a bad valve a couple of years later and found one cylinder pitted where water had got in before I got the tractor. It was amazing that even with pitting, very much like you have in picture 3, that the tractor ran so well. No smoke, good power etc. And I used if for years to brush-hog my 5 acres before selling it in 2000 when we moved.
 
Does positive or negative ground make any difference if just bumping the starter? I would rock it, anyway, just to avoid starter or ring gear damage. #1 and #4 sure look nice.
 
Starters spin the same direction not matter which way you hook them up. Out of more then 25 plus tractor with locked up engines I have never had one single part get hurt by doing it the way I do
 
12 volt battery has more CCA so will do a better job then a 6 volt and it will not hurt the 6 volt system since your not starting it and even then the only thing that can get hurt by 12 volts is the point due to having to many volts at them but as I said your not starting it
 
Old is right: starters spin the same direction whether + or - ground. I flipped polarity on my SA (6v), before going to 12V, and all I needed to do was re-polarize the generator field.

I would try the 'soak it and rock it' method first, especially if you can get it on a hard, flat surface. You don't need to 'fill' the cylinders - a few ounces of ATF (some say to mix with a little kerosene) in 2 and 3 should be plenty, with maybe a couple tablespoons of regular motor oil in 1 & 4. If you can get the crank to move, then I'd put some juice to the starter. If you decide to go 12V to spin it, disconnect the coil. It doesn't take long to smoke one. Don't ask me how I know.
 
Pistons are not the only parts that rust up and stick. You can ruin things real fast by pulling or cranking with the starter. I would pull the starter and use a bar on the starter ring gear. Then you can feel everything that is going on. Won't bend the rods, bust a piston, break a valve , push rod or rocker arm. Soak if you like with w hat you like, but ease into the turning it over. Me, I just take them apart and clean them up and you will always find out you are glad you did.
 
Thanks for all the discussion but today the engine freed up by itself it seems. A young man, the slightest build of all before him, came to look at the tractor. I told him it was seized and let him be during his inspection. Afterwards when I repeated that it was seized, he said it wasn't and showed me it wasn't. At least three before him and myself tried it but only he was successful.

Like pulling Excalibur from the stone.

He also told me one tractor is a multi-fuel so now I need to read up on those.

Thanks again I still earned quite a bit from the discussion.
 
So I am watching and providing limited assistance, like an OR nurse during surgery, as this young guy tries to get the H started. He gets it running rough a few times then it stalls. Now the engine seems to be stuck again. He is pulling out the plugs, one by one, for some reason and I give the crank a try and now it is free again. Does this offer any explanation? When I took the plugs out to drop the endoscope in the cylinders I suspect that freed the engine the first time.

Later he got the engine running pretty well.
 
Does it "lock up" when trying to crank with the starter?

I had problems with my SA with the starter bendix jamming on the ring gear on occasion before I had the starter rebuilt. Others have mentioned the same problem with other models. It would lock the moter solid to where the front crank wouldn't budge it. I'd have to either loosen the starter bolts and wiggle the starter, or crawl under it to apply a lever on the ring gear teeth 'backwards' to get it to release. Depending on the angle of the jam, I suppose a moderate change in temperatures might also make it release.
 
This probably won't help you, but I had a similar situation with an Oliver 60 RC a couple of years ago. The tractor sat in the rain and was stuck solid when I brought it home. After the usual treatment, the motor freed up and actually ran pretty well. Trouble was, it would run until warmed up, then shudder like crazy and seize up. Wait a coupe of minutes and it would fire right back up and run just fine. Sometimes it would run fine for 10 minutes, sometimes for only 1 minute. Then shake like hell and seize solid. I never did correct the problem, as a neighbor wanted the tractor and was going to rebuild the motor. He hasn't done it yet....but I'd bet one of the rings was getting cocked in it's groove and suddenly locking up that cylinder. I'd be interested what others might think.
 
I doubt its either of these two causes because simply removing and re-installing the engine frees up. I have been starting and stopping it for a few days with no repeat of the problem.
 

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