IH 424 Electronic Ignition

medshop · Sep 29, 2015

Need some guidance on trying to wire a new electronic ignition on a IH 424 gas that currently has a ballast resistor on it. It is a 12V negative ground. On one side of the resistor connected is the electronic fuel pump and the wire to the starter which both connect to the positive side of the coil and the other side has a black wire going to the switch. I assume the red wire from the new electronic ignition and the black switch wire goes to the positive side of the coil and the new black wire goes to the negative side of the coil. What do I do with the electronic fuel pump wire and the starter wire? Would they be hooked together?? Clueless!!

Deutz Lover · Sep 29, 2015

What kind of electronic ignition are you installing and are you also using a trigger different than the points?

When you say starter wire, do you mean the large one or the smaller wire that feeds power from the ignition switch to the resistor/coil and the fuel pump?

I have a schematic (it may be incomplete or incorrect) and it appears that the + side of the coil is connected to one of the two smaller terminal posts. The large + cable from the battery is connected to the large terminal of the starter solenoid. Is there a second smaller wire connected to the large terminal post of the starter solenoid?

Do you have a volt meter? The schematic I have does not show an electric fuel pump. Is it grounded directly or through a common block?

Essentially the fuel pump should be powered through the ignition switch, but I cannot tell if the ignition switch is feeding power or is a source of the ground.
The ballast resistor should have voltage going through it when the ignition is in the on position. It is bypassed during starting, but once the starter button is released the ballast resistor again sends power to the coil.

The fuel pump should always be powered with the ignition switch in the on position. It really should not have a common connection with the + side of the coil.

medshop · Oct 1, 2015

(quoted from post at 14:47:01 09/29/15) What kind of electronic ignition are you installing and are you also using a trigger different than the points?

When you say starter wire, do you mean the large one or the smaller wire that feeds power from the ignition switch to the resistor/coil and the fuel pump?

I have a schematic (it may be incomplete or incorrect) and it appears that the + side of the coil is connected to one of the two smaller terminal posts. The large + cable from the battery is connected to the large terminal of the starter solenoid. Is there a second smaller wire connected to the large terminal post of the starter solenoid?

Do you have a volt meter? The schematic I have does not show an electric fuel pump. Is it grounded directly or through a common block?

Essentially the fuel pump should be powered through the ignition switch, but I cannot tell if the ignition switch is feeding power or is a source of the ground.
The ballast resistor should have voltage going through it when the ignition is in the on position. It is bypassed during starting, but once the starter button is released the ballast resistor again sends power to the coil.

The fuel pump should always be powered with the ignition switch in the on position. It really should not have a common connection with the + side of the coil.

It's an aftermarket Pertronix Ignitor model 1108568 12V Negative Grd. Were you able to pick up the photo with everything labeled that I downloaded? Can I email it to you?

Deutz Lover · Oct 1, 2015

I did not see any photo or attachment. Where did you post the photo"

Right now our email is crap. About a year ago? our email server providers servers crashed during an upgrade. Our isp switched to another server group or farm and an email system which was not great. Two days ago they upgraded or switched again and right now I would not trust it because I cannot get it to show up where it should. So for the next week it will probably be a P.I.T.A.

Just try to post it here and tell me where you post it.

medshop · Oct 1, 2015

(quoted from post at 12:01:43 10/01/15)

(quoted from post at 14:47:01 09/29/15) What kind of electronic ignition are you installing and are you also using a trigger different than the points?

When you say starter wire, do you mean the large one or the smaller wire that feeds power from the ignition switch to the resistor/coil and the fuel pump?

I have a schematic (it may be incomplete or incorrect) and it appears that the + side of the coil is connected to one of the two smaller terminal posts. The large + cable from the battery is connected to the large terminal of the starter solenoid. Is there a second smaller wire connected to the large terminal post of the starter solenoid?

Do you have a volt meter? The schematic I have does not show an electric fuel pump. Is it grounded directly or through a common block?

Essentially the fuel pump should be powered through the ignition switch, but I cannot tell if the ignition switch is feeding power or is a source of the ground.
The ballast resistor should have voltage going through it when the ignition is in the on position. It is bypassed during starting, but once the starter button is released the ballast resistor again sends power to the coil.

The fuel pump should always be powered with the ignition switch in the on position. It really should not have a common connection with the + side of the coil.

Click to expand...

It's an aftermarket Pertronix Ignitor model 1108568 12V Negative Grd. Were you able to pick up the photo with everything labeled that I downloaded? Can I email it to you?

. Instead of starter, I mean the R side of the solenoid which connects to the + side of the coil and that wire is connected together with a second wire going to the same side of the ballast resistor as the electronic fuel pump wire. The opposite side of the ballast resistor has the switch wire connected. Does that clarify any?

Deutz Lover · Oct 1, 2015

yes, but it would still help if you could post your picture.

I will have to trace this back. Not all is as I picture it.

Deutz Lover · Oct 1, 2015

Medshop,

The edition function is currently disabled so I will have to do this with subsequent posts.
Does the "S" terminal on the solenoid have an orange wire the goes to a termnal block and then to one terminal of the push button starter?

As old as the tractor is it could have been rewired at some point and the main thing is as follows:

1.The fuel pump needs to be switched through the ignition switch or through a relay. My schematic does not have this.

2.When the ignition is on, power to the coil is normally shunted through the ballast resistor.

3. There should be a pink wire the leads from the other terminal of the start button to a common junction block that has a pink wire leading to the ignition switch and a grey wire that goes to the meters.
4. There should also be a black wire that leads from the starter push button and this wire should be joined at the opposite end of the ballast resistor away from the coil.

What I need you to is remove the + battery cable
i.e. no power. Take a volt ohm meter and see if the S terminal or the R terminal go to ground and if they are both common to the solenoid windings.

Deutz Lover · Oct 1, 2015

*Okay,
I have traced the power for every thing that is supplied by the ignition switch.
There is a red wire that is connected to the starter solenoid at the same large terminal. This wire leads to a junction where is becomes a brown wire which leads to the ignition switch. In common with the brown wire are a series of violet wires that either are joined at a junction or elsewhere. The brown wire and the violet wires are normally always hot unless there is a relay to power on the violet wires.

Deutz Lover · Oct 1, 2015

Okay #2 I have traced the wire from terminal R of the starter solenoid and it should go straight to the + terminal of the coil. Terminal R should be hot only as long as the starter button is pressed.

What is throwing me is where the fuel pump wires are connected. If the fuel pump is supposed to be running at 12 volts all of the time it should not be connected directly to the + terminal of the coil. Now if it is connected to the other side of the ballast resistor that is ok. But again I need to know if the electric fuel pump is factory or someone put it on.

Deutz Lover · Oct 1, 2015

I think I can now tell you how to hook up your Pertronix, but I cannot find that model number listed. I think that is a Hamilton Bob's number and I don't know which Pertronix unit it really is. There are schematics listed if you go to Google and enter Pertronix ignitor and go to images.

medshop · Oct 2, 2015

As mentioned it is not a Petronix, but an after market brand equivalent to a Petronix 1442. The electronic fuel pump was on the tractor when I bought it, so possibly it wasn't original equipment. But the fuel pump wire goes directly to the ballast resistor and is connected by a double connection with the solenoid wire going to the R side and the 2 connections are on the + side of the coil. The ignition wire is connected to the opposite side of the resistor. The tractor runs very well with this set up, I just thought I would eliminate the resistor and upgrade the ignition. I don't have a meter, but will try to borrow one to check on the connections you mentioned.

medshop · Oct 2, 2015

I don't see a link to upload a picture of the ignition setup. First time on the forum!

Deutz Lover · Oct 2, 2015

Medshop,
Sorry about that when you wrote aftermarket I misinterpreted it as I consider Pertronix as aftermarket. This unit replaces 1442, 21A303D, 21A303DPH, EH4.
The 1442 is a Pertronix unit.

There is a video showing installation of a Pertronix type unit on a negative ground Farmall A. You can find it on Google images by typing in Farmall 424 Pertronix 1442 wiring schematic.
It should be the second image and will lead to the video.

The unit in the video had a disc shaped reluctor type piece that fits over the camshaft.
I don't know whether this has a reluctor, but I looked at a Pertronix at an auto parts store and it did not have one.

Some of these have a distributor lobe sensor that replaces the need for a reluctor.

Deutz Lover · Oct 3, 2015

Bob,
If you look at my wording I said a reluctor type piece. I meant mainly by the position it occupies on the distributor shaft. I have not actually seen the part in person, but I have seen pictures of these. Pertronix says that this piece contains cobalt magnets and the pickup head contains a hall device, But each unit varies in design and without examining it I would not know which ones this applies to.

Now you said name one example of a Pertronix conversion that uses a reluctor. If you read the application notes of the Pertronix III you will see that some of the units trigger off of the point cam or reluctor. Again this depends on the design.

Britannica describes a reluctor as a magnetic device operated by the distributor shaft used to produced timed electric signals.
Its a matter of semantics.

yet, arguably, I examined a reluctor from a 1979 nissan 200 sx. the reluctor wheel was not magnetic (that is magnetized if that is what they mean) Go figure.

A reluctor does not have to have physically visible arms to function. They can be encased in plastic or a other nonmagnetic material.

IH 424 Electronic Ignition

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