ok, this will stir up the pot

Tom Fleming

Well-known Member
Ok, just had my first truly bad experience with E10 fuel. 1949 KBS5 truck. started running like crap this spring. Tried a few things, then finally drained the fuel tank. Got about a gallon of gooey watery stuff, and the rest stinky fuel. so, got that replaced with non-ethanol fuel. Truck ran ok, but need about 1/3 choke to do anything. Last week, finally broke down and checked the carb (loaned truck to a friend, and he actually pulled the carb). Here is what was found:

411692511.jpg


So, here is the question. What are you guys using to treat ethanol fuel that will set for extended period? I have narrowed it down to Stabil 360 or Lucas Ethanol treatment. I really don't want to drain the fuel anytime it is going to sit for more than 3-4 weeks. I also don't want to pay $4.25 a gallon for non-ethanol fuel. Ultimately, I will do what I have to do, but thought I would ask here to see if I can go the "easy" way out...........

NOTE: Fuel tank was totally redone and lined. Carb was rebuilt from the ground up. All fuel lines brand new. Truck ran like a top all last year on E10 fuel, without issues. This happened over the winter/early spring........
 

Since I retired I don't put many miles on my 2001 GMC Sonoma with the 4.3 V6. I had it in the shop to get the fuel system cleaned after it developed a miss. I asked the mechanic what caused the fuel system to clog up and he said it was the E10 I was burning. Less than a year later the same problem popped up. This time I treated the gas with Seafoam. I started off with a half tank of gas and one can of Seafoam. When it was time to refill the tank I dumped another can of Seafoam in the tank. Within a week the engine cleared up and started to run smooth again. So what I'm saying is put a can of Seafoam in the tank every so often when you are using the truck, and make sure you have Seafoam in the gas when you park it for the winter.
 
(quoted from post at 00:49:47 09/29/15) Ok, just had my first truly bad experience with E10 fuel. 1949 KBS5 truck. started running like crap this spring. Tried a few things, then finally drained the fuel tank. Got about a gallon of gooey watery stuff, and the rest stinky fuel. so, got that replaced with non-ethanol fuel. Truck ran ok, but need about 1/3 choke to do anything. Last week, finally broke down and checked the carb (loaned truck to a friend, and he actually pulled the carb). Here is what was found:

411692511.jpg


So, here is the question. What are you guys using to treat ethanol fuel that will set for extended period? I have narrowed it down to Stabil 360 or Lucas Ethanol treatment. I really don't want to drain the fuel anytime it is going to sit for more than 3-4 weeks. I also don't want to pay $4.25 a gallon for non-ethanol fuel. Ultimately, I will do what I have to do, but thought I would ask here to see if I can go the "easy" way out...........

NOTE: Fuel tank was totally redone and lined. Carb was rebuilt from the ground up. All fuel lines brand new. Truck ran like a top all last year on E10 fuel, without issues. This happened over the winter/early spring........

I would say use the treatment stuff in your gas and just run the gas out of the tank when you decide to set it up for the winter or long periods. Just do your best to not leave gas in the tank and carburetor. I've not had bad luck with it setting for 8 months (with it in tank only)
 

You need to have a talk with your fuel supplier, or start buying your fuel somewhere else. I own 3 Farmalls. All of them run on E10. All of them set for weeks, sometimes months at a time with E10 in the tanks, including setting through the winter months. All of those tractors will start up anytime I want them to, and will run like they had been shut off just yesterday.
 
Rusty, I tend to agree. I separated the water goo from the old gas. Dumped the old gas in the F30 and she "drank" it like there was no tomorrow. From what I have been able to determine, my problem came from sitting for almost 6 months. I will certainly drain the tank if that is what it takes, but I surely don't want to do the carb every year either. I have 3 LB IHC engines that had the same thing happen in their tanks. Fortunately, I just dumped the junk and put fresh in, and they ran like a champ.

The more I search and read about the ethanol in fuel, the more I am convinced it is fine to run, IF and only IF you keep running and filling the machine. If you let it sit for any extended period, it will suck up moisture and cause issues. I would also say, that it is VERY humid in this part of PA, and if you are in a lower humidity geo, the problem would tend to be lessened.
 
The ethanol will soften and remove red kote and similar tank liner , says so on label even if I remember .
 
I will probably get some flak on this but I go to great lengths to avoid using gas with ethanol. If I must use it I add about an ounce of 2 cycle oil to a gallon of gas along with the fuel stabilizer. So far no problems. I'm a big fan of 100 low lead aviation fuel. It may be expensive but it is trouble free.
 
I agree, the fuel tank could have a leak allowing water in, or the fuel supplier is selling you H2O for gasoline. It could be resifual water from years ago, as non-ethanol gas will not accept water. but the real issue is not ethanol in the fuel, but where the water came from. Jim
 
I have also been using Seafoam in our antique tractors for several years,and the engines still start and run OK with E10 up to a year old.Beyond that I siphon it out and use it in my truck or lawnmower,then replace with new gas with seafoam.I also use Seafoam as a stabilizer in my mowers and motorcycle in the winter.
 
(quoted from post at 19:03:53 09/28/15) The ethanol will soften and remove red kote and similar tank liner , says so on label even if I remember .

I don't know about other liner, but RedKote says it will resist alcohol.
 
Briggs & Stratton has an additive that combats the effects of ethanol and gas can be stored up to threes years. I have fuel shutoffs and run every thing dry if not going to be used for long periods time. Not knocking Seafoam it is a good product.
 
Oh a different color then what i have been finding , They are usually GREEN and i don't care what you cook them in the only way to get it out is to take a wire brush on a die grinder and grind it out . Was there any gritty grainny stuff in there or was that in the filter??
 
Every time I have the standing barrel filled I put a
gallon jug of Seafoam in it. I run it in every gas
engine. I do buy a five gallon jug of white gas for the
trimmer, blower, chain saws, and tillers. Things that
might sit.
 
Yes in damp/humid places ethanol is a no no(unless constantly using(burn/mixing)). Had bad problem (tractors missing bad from the fuel) with that here and it was not just us either(Was told that by fuel truck driver). Since that batch the company got rid of the ethanol, and most problems with the tractors.

Was told by the mechanic, between both the auto shop and the small engine shop, that corn starch dissolved(often finer then refiner's filters) draws in the moister(like wood or hay does), and can collect(crystalize) on/in filters and passages or settle in the carb(your problem, maybe??)

Only options, I can think of, are balance the fuel cost(higher non-E vs. Ethanol) with additives or drain complete system each time done.
 
I have 5 Farmalls that I keep running with E10 and they sit all winter and never a problem. I only shut the gas off on one that has a bad seat in it and will leak. I had one that had more E85 in it then E10 and it sat from Oct. till May and started with no problem. I think your problem is with your gas supplier and not with the ethanol. I live in Wisconsin so maybe we have different fuel then you do out east.

Bob
 
I put about 250,000 on a Jeep Cherokee and it never had anything but ethanol in it.

That being said, I use "boat" gas, no alcohol in all my saws, weed eaters, and small engines. Even my ATV's and lawn mowers.

But it's below $3 a gallon here.

Gene
 
pic looks like the tank liner is breaking down.
saw it a lot on certain year Harley tanks.
gotta watch what normal additives you add too.(carb cleaners, etc)
wrong one and that little bottle is all it takes to get breakdown started.

also need to read liner specs carefully.
some say 'resists' alcohol....corporate double speak.
like the difference between water-resistant....and waterproof.
big difference.
 
The tank was lined with a 2 part, epoxy liner called Caswell. I have used it for years now. Only way to get it out once installed is to bake the tank at about 500 degrees and burn it out.

good responses so far. what gets me is that the old girl ran (and runs) great on E10. If there is a leak somewhere, I don't know where it is at. brand new filler hose. brand new gas cap, and the tank itself is tight. I am leaning towards a bad tank of gas from the BP station. The only thing there is though, I fill up weekly in my daily driver, and have had no issues.

I have gone with the Stabil 360, and will see if that works. From what I have gathered from my searches, it is one of the better products going. Lucas looks to be fairly good as well. I am not much for snake oil products, but I do use Lucas oil products and have been very satisfied.

Last interesting fact. mower, chain saw, and weed whacker manufacturers are now explicitly stating in their manuals and warranties that an ethanol additive MUST be used, or the warranty is void. Go figure.
 
(quoted from post at 15:09:39 09/28/15) Rusty, I tend to agree. I separated the water goo from the old gas. Dumped the old gas in the F30 and she "drank" it like there was no tomorrow. From what I have been able to determine, my problem came from sitting for almost 6 months. I will certainly drain the tank if that is what it takes, but I surely don't want to do the carb every year either. I have 3 LB IHC engines that had the same thing happen in their tanks. Fortunately, I just dumped the junk and put fresh in, and they ran like a champ.

The more I search and read about the ethanol in fuel, the more I am convinced it is fine to run, IF and only IF you keep running and filling the machine. If you let it sit for any extended period, it will suck up moisture and cause issues. I would also say, that it is VERY humid in this part of PA, and if you are in a lower humidity geo, the problem would tend to be lessened.

I live in southwest Iowa. HIGH humidity is normal. I've been using E10 in everything since it was first introduced in about 1979 or 1980. My tractors and lawnmowers set for months at a time with E10 in the tanks. I never drain anything. I never use StaBil or any other additive. I've never had a problem with water in the fuel, never had a carburetor get clogged up.
 
(quoted from post at 05:45:43 09/29/15) ...The only thing there is though, I fill up weekly in my daily driver, and have had no issues...

You didn't have a problem in your daily driver because you burn enough gas in it that the water couldn't present a problem.
 
I really think you have some larger problem here.

I've used E10 in everything here for 10 or more years. My rule is if it's going to sit for more then a couple of months I use Stabil, if not I just run with it.

That being said my Farmalls often miss the Stabil treatment as I never know when I'm going to use one and I haven't had issues with them sitting over the winter.

K
 
For anything gas that gets intermittent use gets premium. the 806 which is one thirsty tractor, gets premium with a splash of diesel. Chainsaws, lawnmowers, trimmers, etc... all get premium. Made a huge difference.

Our premium does have ethanol, but the degrade seems slower.
 
(reply to post at 20:49:47 09/28/15)
used E 10 in all my gas engines. The 300 Farmall sat from Nov till March with no problems. 715 combine sat from Nov till June with no problems. Lawn mowers sat from Oct till may and no problems. Buy your fuel from someone else. My cars and pickups also used it with no problems.
 
I have a 300 that sits a lot also, but I refuse to use any E10. I have been using a product Briggs and Stratton supplies called Fresh Start since 1990. I have not had any problems with fuel and it starts all the time when I want it to. I work on small engines and if I had a dollar for every carburetor I have cleaned water out of, I would be a millionaire by now. The E10 fuel absorbs water like it is a sponge. The Fresh Start is the only product we have found to prevent the alcohol problems. You only use a couple of ounces per 5 gallons of fuel, but it works!!! My tractor sits all winter and never runs. Without Fresh Start I believe I would have all kinds of fuel problems!!javascript:emoticon(':D')
 
(quoted from post at 18:59:32 10/01/15) I have a 300 that sits a lot also, but I refuse to use any E10. I have been using a product Briggs and Stratton supplies called Fresh Start since 1990. I have not had any problems with fuel and it starts all the time when I want it to. I work on small engines and if I had a dollar for every carburetor I have cleaned water out of, I would be a millionaire by now. The E10 fuel absorbs water like it is a sponge. The Fresh Start is the only product we have found to prevent the alcohol problems. You only use a couple of ounces per 5 gallons of fuel, but it works!!! My tractor sits all winter and never runs. Without Fresh Start I believe I would have all kinds of fuel problems!!javascript:emoticon(':D')

The E10 is not the problem. The problem is that you are buying fuel with water already in it, or you are not storing it properly. Find another retailer to buy your gas from.
 

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