Author	[Modern View]
Tfphill 08-26-2012 19:25:33 208.0.101.113 Report to Moderator	Hello guys. I need some help with my 175b loader. It does not have pushing power. I have to use in low range 1gear. Works good in 1st but I think it could be better. When put in second gear position which would be 3 rd or 4th high range the drive shaft to transmission stops turning when under very little load. When at idle drive shaft turns. The torque converter preassure reads good on gauge all the time. Any advice would be good. Same happens when in reverse. Operates in 1gear and any other gear shaft stops turning. [Reply]   [No Email]
Dennis K (WA) 09-19-2012 19:08:21 24.21.78.195 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Tfphill, 08-26-2012 19:25:33   Boy, I'm not sure what you have going on there and I don't have any reference material. Doesn't seem right that R2 should be open to drain and the transmission still functon properly. Not sure about the tee either but may be normal. The valve at the shift handle is very trouble free and as I recall it's housing is also marked like the selector valve. Also, at the bottom of the shift tower is a manifold (connection) for the hoses held together with two capscrews. I think it is also marked for hose location. If you separate the manifold watch for the o rings between the joint. Hard to tell what someone else has done and why. Does your donor tractor have the transmission and plumbing intact? You may have to spring for a service manual if you don't have one. Sometimes on E Bay. good luck Dennis [Reply]  [No Email]
Dennis K (WA) 09-19-2012 08:44:59 24.21.78.195 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Tfphill, 08-26-2012 19:25:33   Not sure what you have there on the trans leak unless there is suppose to be a drain back line attached there instead of a plug. It may show in the books if you have access to them. Is there any port markings on the valve body for that plug? I know some ports are marked with like F1, F2, R1 etc. Could you post a picture of the valve and show which plug you are dealing with? May help or may not. It's been a long time. With the plug removed is there a steady flow? Is it under pressure? 220 sounds a little hot for your cooling. 170-200 would be better of course. Keep us posted on your progress Dennis [Reply]  [No Email]
Tfphill 09-19-2012 17:38:11 208.0.101.113 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Dennis K (WA), 09-19-2012 08:44:59   I have posted the picture. The port that I am having a problem with is R2. It is located in the to the top of the picture in the middle. It has a new copper line attached to it. I put a copper line on it to drain fluid to another location. I am wondering if the mechanic who worked on tractor last blanked the R2 port and split the port on the bottom of the pic(see stainless Steel T at bottom of picture). Maybe he was having a problem with the speed selector. I was unable to see the label for the port with the T. What d you think? I checked speeds for drive in reverse, but not speed. I know I am getting all four speeds in Forward. [Reply]  [No Email]
Dennis K (WA) 09-10-2012 08:56:34 24.21.78.195 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Tfphill, 08-26-2012 19:25:33   Wow, long term project with many hands in the pie. If filters were plugged as you said, then oil was probably not changed. BTW the bell housing is what they call a wet housing. There is normally transmission oil flying around in it then drains back to the rear frame. Not under pressure, starter is the sealed type and mounts with a gasket. Good luck with the heating, the shroud will help. If you haven't done it yet be sure to check between the cooler and radiator. They would plug up in there and block any air flow. They were good machines in their day and still can be with good servicing and house keeping. I would be interested in how the heating issue turns out. Dennis [Reply]  [No Email]
Tfphill 09-18-2012 18:47:22 208.0.101.113 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Dennis K (WA), 09-10-2012 08:56:34   Ok. I got the fan shrouding on. It helped heating issue. I am not getting any wind blowing into engine area. All air is pushing out through the radiator grill. I worked tractor at high engine rpm for about 20 min. In that time the temperature moved from 160F to 220F. Usually by this time water would be pushing out the radiator cap. It has not done that since the shroud. I left tractor just above idle for about 15 min and it dropped to 200F. I am not sure what the operating temp is for this engine. I think that is hot, however it is an improvement. Also went fixing miscellaneous leakes around engine and made my way to the transmission valve body above the transmission where the speed selector hoses are connected. I noticed a small leak from port that was blanked. I plugged the port completely with correct fitting. I then went to test tractor to see if this leak may have contributed to my original trans issues and noticed that I lost all my reverse movement in both high and low range in both 1 and 2 positions. I removed plug completely and regained reverse. Baffled by this I finger tightened plug and noticed reverse engaged but after a couple seconds. It seems as though the more fluid allowed to escape from this port. The fast reverse is engaged. If I plug complete there is no reverse. Any suggestions? Other than this new trans issue everything seems to be working well for what I need tractor for. [Reply]  [No Email]
Dennis K (WA) 09-10-2012 08:03:53 24.21.78.195 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Tfphill, 08-26-2012 19:25:33   Sounds like more to the problem than first known on this thread. So, the converter had failed? Did you get rid of the contaminated oil? The 175's with everything normal did not over heat. You have an issue somewhere. The shroud may help. Hard to believe it has over heated this long and not corrected. good luck Dennis [Reply]  [No Email]
Tfphill 09-10-2012 08:31:38 65.48.186.252 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Dennis K (WA), 09-10-2012 08:03:53   The torque convertor was replaced because it had a problem with it not having power when pushing. I believe it was replaced and working. The mechanic who was working on it removed the torque convertor because he saw oil by starting motor. It turns out the oil was not leaking from the torque convertor. It was the oil in the starting motor. He could not re-install the torque convertor and retired from age. Another mechanic then continued the job in his spare time which took about 2 years to complete. Now I am here finishing up the job that was not done properly by both mechanics. I am unsure if the mechanics in the past had fully drained the oil. Probably best for me to try and drain the oil and go again for safety. I believe the fan shrouding is a big issue. even with the fan pushing air towards the radiator i can feel air flowing out towards the engine. So no air seems to be passing through the radiator. Enough air flowing that i thought the fan was on backwards. I am going to fix shrouding and see what happens. Hopefully that is the fix. [Reply]  [No Email]
Dennis K (WA) 09-08-2012 20:05:52 24.21.78.195 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Tfphill, 08-26-2012 19:25:33   Hello Tfphill, Reverse stall check- I can't remember for sure because it has been a long time but reverse may be a tad higher geared than forward. Forward for work and reverse more for speed. As long as the drive line stalls when tracks are stalled when in gear you should be good. Great news on the pressures. I think your transmission and converter are good to go. Heating- Many of those machines came with a reversible fan so you could send the heat out the front in summer and bring it in in winter. Barring other issues it should cool in either direction. The reversible fans have springs at each blade near the hub so you could push the blade toward the center and rotate it to change the direction of air flow. If they have not been rotated for a period of time you are going to struggle to get them to move. Sometimes you have to remove the fan, lube it up and beat on it to get them loosened up. If it does not have the reversible type you can not just turn a standard fan around. Efficiency will be poor if on backward. In front of the radiator is the transmission cooler they have a tendency to plug up between the two. Some machines coolers were on a hinge to swing open for cleaning. I can't remember if 175B was that way. Give your radiator and cooler a good cleaning chances are you will be fine. Good luck, Dennis [Reply]  [No Email]
Tfphill 09-09-2012 16:30:14 69.73.212.240 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Dennis K (WA), 09-08-2012 20:05:52   Thanks for the help. My fan is rigid. It is setup for it to push air from engine compartment through the radiator to hydraulic cooler. My father told me that the tractor was overheating from the time he got it (about 20 years or more ago). It was overheating with the owners before him too. I removed a fan shrouding from the donor 175 that we have. that is also where the torque converter was taken from and installed to fix the pushing problem. [Reply]  [No Email]
Tfphill 09-08-2012 07:53:39 72.51.100.90 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Tfphill, 08-26-2012 19:25:33   I have checked pressures in gears. They remain the same. I however have an overheating issue as well. I was told that the fan direction may have something to do with it. Right now the fan is pushing air towards the radiator. Is it supposed to be that direction or is it supposed to be pulling air through the radiator and blowing over engine? It is also missing the top half of the fan shrouding. I am sure this has allot to do with the overheating issue. I am going to fabricate the missing shrouding. My question really is what direction should the fan be? [Reply]  [No Email]
Dennis K (WA) 09-06-2012 21:38:01 24.21.78.195 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Tfphill, 08-26-2012 19:25:33   Your pressures look normal when in neutral. They should stay about the same while in each gear. Try them in each gear at idle and reved up while holding the brakes. If they are close to the same you are good as far as pressures. You may not be able to hold the machine with the brakes in first low. I think digging in a bank you may be limited to low gear but the machine should move about easily in the others. Digging in soft material like loose sand could problably be done in a higher gear. If there is no sign of aluminum in your trans oil and no over heating of the trans oil, you are probably good to go. You could easily check your engine boost pressure, intake manifold pressure, with a low pressure gauge. There should be a plug in the intake manifold to tap in the gauge. Check warmed up, in gear, stall the tracks and reved to hi rpm. Previous post has the spec. This will give an idea if your engine and torque converter are up to par. I would be interested in what you find out. We were in Barbados last December on a cruise and toured your area. good luck Dennis [Reply]  [No Email]
Tfphill 09-08-2012 08:00:39 72.51.100.90 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Dennis K (WA), 09-06-2012 21:38:01   I forgot to mention that when I was checking pressures in 1st speed I could not hold tracks by pressing brakes. However when in reverse in 1st speed i could hold the tracks with brakes. What does this mean? [Reply]  [No Email]
Tfphill 09-06-2012 16:22:08 69.73.212.240 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Tfphill, 08-26-2012 19:25:33   Hello guys. Checked the preassure today. I got the following results: first number is at idle second number is at high idle. port#1 - 10psi/20psi port#2 - 85psi/95psi port#3 - 205psi/206psi any thoughts on my situation? [Reply]  [No Email]
Dennis K (WA) 09-03-2012 19:25:39 24.21.78.195 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Tfphill, 08-26-2012 19:25:33   LUB is the low pressure oil system within the transmission to keep oil going to the clutch packs that are not engaged and the bearings of the transmission. Just another part of the transmission and converter hyd. system. There is a three spool pressure regulator valve on top of the transmission. The pump, mounted in the converter, supplies oil to it. Main or clutch pressure takes what it needs first, then the converter gets its share and lub gets what's left. Hopefully there is some. I guess that's it in a nut shell. IH called it a 'cascade hyd system' Lub should be around 25psi Barbados? Dennis This post was edited by Dennis K (WA) at 19:38:16 09/03/12. [Reply]  [No Email]
Tfphill 09-06-2012 07:03:41 72.51.100.90 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Dennis K (WA), 09-03-2012 19:25:39   I have changed pressure filter, cleaned strainer and changed o- ring on suction filter. The tractor works better. I am getting all 4 speeds which it didnt get before when driving without load. However when I try to push with load in position 1 (lowrange) it pushes without slipping. Tracks keep turning no problem. When i put in position 2 lowrange (3rd speed) the tracks do not turn as fast. I would like to know how this tractor is supposed to work. Is it capable of pushing in 2nd speed and up? I was too young to remember when this tractor was in its prime. I am going to check pressures this afternoon and update you guys. [Reply]  [No Email]
tfphill 09-04-2012 03:27:10 209.248.169.130 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Dennis K (WA), 09-03-2012 19:25:39   ok. Thanks. Yea Barbados. That is where I am from and were the tractor is located. I am in Miami on business at the moment. Heading back tonight. [Reply]  [No Email]
Dennis K (WA) 08-29-2012 06:51:09 24.21.78.195 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Tfphill, 08-26-2012 19:25:33   Good morning, I agree, don't damage the filter until you have a new one but would be interesting to look at later. The fiber accumulation in the screen is probably from the steering shoe linings. Could be an accumulation over time and not mean there is a problem. Clean the screen and see what happens, possibly the pump could not get enough oil and your problem will be solved by doing a service. Be sure the o ring in the screen housing is good or it may be and area for the pump to suck air causing you another problem. good luck Dennis [Reply]  [No Email]
Dennis K (WA) 08-28-2012 19:49:54 24.21.78.195 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Tfphill, 08-26-2012 19:25:33   The hydraulic system, tank at right rear of tractor, is for the loader and ripper only and no connection with transmission. The hyd filter and screen are in the tank accessed through the top lid of the tank. The screen and filter you had apart are all there is for the transmission and convertor. The rear case of the tractor is the sump for them. Normal for filter to be soft. You said the screen was blocked. With what? Screen is washable and replace the filter. You may want to cut the filter open to see what is in it. The test ports originally had a sheet metal tag telling which was which but probably disappeared long ago. Start with a 300 psi gauge and you'll soon know which is which. How is your oil level? Should be a dipstick near the seat. Check at idle neutral You may want to consider some books if you don't have them. good luck Dennis [Reply]  [No Email]
Tfphill 08-29-2012 03:19:50 208.0.101.113 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Dennis K (WA), 08-28-2012 19:49:54   Thanks. You are helping allot. The screen was blocked with dirt. Looked almost like fibre or milky looking muck. The oil level in trans is just above the full mark. I don't want to cut trans filter yet cause I don't have a replacement. I will remove what looks like a paper outer shield that has holes in it first and inspect. I am going to Miami this weekend so I would purchase replacement first before cutting. [Reply]  [No Email]
Dennis K (WA) 08-28-2012 12:44:32 24.21.78.195 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Tfphill, 08-26-2012 19:25:33   Tfphill, Sorry if I have confused you. So far without any additional info I don't think the problem is the transmission. Ether the engine is weak or the converter is slipping due to a failure or lack of pressure or excessive load on the machine. When in gear and tracks stalled if the drive line spins you ether have a slipping clutch pack or slipping steer clutches but based on your description that is not the case. Does it sound like your engine is laboring, working, when in gear and reved up? Does the driveline / engine act the same in all gears? How did the problem develop or has it always been this way? Does it steer normally? Are the brakes applied? good luck Dennis [Reply]  [No Email]
Tfphill 08-28-2012 17:12:06 208.0.101.113 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Dennis K (WA), 08-28-2012 12:44:32   1- the engine sounds strong when in gear and reved. There is a slight dip in revs when put in gear doesn't sound like its over labouring. 2- it works in 1st but feels as though it is not getting all that it should. 2,3,4 gives problem of drive shaft not turning at all. 3.- it has pushed well before. I am not sure y this happened. Tractor was pased down to me from my father. 4.- the steering is good and responsive. I pulled the filter that sits above the torque converter. It look blocked. I am not sure if this is Whatyou have referred to as the strainer. It is a metal mesh type filter. I also pulled the transmission filter. Looks like a paper type filter which is located to the left side of driver sitting position next to tranny. This filter feels kind of mooshy. I am not sure if it is because it bad or is this normal for a paper type that is exposed to oil. I would also like to know if the fluid in the torque converter is fed from the hydraulic fluid tank? Are there any other filters that I should look for besides these two? [Reply]  [No Email]
Dennis K (WA) 08-28-2012 11:39:45 24.21.78.195 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Tfphill, 08-26-2012 19:25:33   None of the clutches in a 175B / TD15B or C are common to F & R. The input shaft is forward with a hi and lo clutch and an addition clutch shaft having a hi and lo is reverse. Additionally there is a sliding gear hi / lo range shaft giving the transmission 4 forward and 4 reverse gears. The drive line should spin freely in neutral and stall in all gears, even at full rpm, as long as the tracks are not allowed to turn. Dennis [Reply]  [No Email]
Tfphill 08-28-2012 11:46:25 72.51.100.90 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Dennis K (WA), 08-28-2012 11:39:45   I am confused now. So the drive shaft is not supposed to turn if tracks dont turn? So when I have it in 3rd forward and the tracks are not turning the shaft isnt turning even though there is no big load(just the ripper down) what would the problem now be? The torque converter or transmission? [Reply]  [No Email]
AJ. 08-28-2012 11:07:04 92.4.154.201 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Tfphill, 08-26-2012 19:25:33   Odds on it's a weak forward clutch pack,if it drives good in reverse it suggests that the speed clutches are OK ie it is the same speed clutch that is used for forward and reverse, if its it is reversing good the torque,reverse clutch,speed clutches and steering is all good leaving only the forward clutch to have an issue. Good luck AJ [Reply]  [No Email]
tfphill 08-28-2012 11:14:47 72.51.100.90 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to AJ., 08-28-2012 11:07:04   I dont think the issue lies in the transmission. The drive shaft that comes out of torque converter housing is not turning when under load. It just stops spinning. Looks almost as though it is slipping. [Reply]  [No Email]
Tfphill 08-28-2012 08:34:41 72.51.100.90 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Tfphill, 08-26-2012 19:25:33   Thanks guys for info. The engine is not at fault for sure. I just have to check pressure of hydraulics. [Reply]  [No Email]
Dennis K (WA) 08-28-2012 07:46:57 24.21.78.195 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Tfphill, 08-26-2012 19:25:33   Good point Fritz, here are the specs. HI Idle - 2650 rpm Conv Stall - 2150 - 2300 rpm Boost press @ conv stall w/ 3LD229 turbo - 11-15 psi Boost press @ conv stall w/ 3LD279 turbo - 8-12 psi Dennis [Reply]  [No Email]
Dennis K (WA) 08-27-2012 20:02:13 24.21.78.195 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Tfphill, 08-26-2012 19:25:33   You first need to check your filters. Are they clean? Does it look like they have aluminum in the oil? Aluminum would be from the converter. The gauge on the dash is generally the clutch pressure (main pressure) not converter press unless some one has added one. If I remember right the 175B had pressure taps under the floor plate at the front of the seat frame. One for clutch press, 180-220 psi, one for converter press, 80-100psi at hi idle and one for lub press around 25psi. These would be 1/8'' pipe thread. If they are not there then you have to go to the press regulator valve on top of the transmission to tap in, also 1/8''pipe thread. This will probably require removal of the batteries. Let us know what you find and we'll go from there. good luck Dennis [Reply]  [No Email]
tfphill 09-03-2012 17:36:13 209.248.169.130 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Dennis K (WA), 08-27-2012 20:02:13   What is lub pressure? I know clutch and torque but I have no idea what LUB means? I am going to check pressures on Thursday when i get back to Barbados. [Reply]  [No Email]
Tfphill 08-28-2012 17:16:16 208.0.101.113 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Dennis K (WA), 08-27-2012 20:02:13   I located the pressure taps. There are 3 lines that run to a block at base of driver seat. I just have to get a pressure gauge to check. Any suggestions on how to identify which line is which? [Reply]  [No Email]
JMS/.MN 08-27-2012 09:37:56 209.237.125.241 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Tfphill, 08-26-2012 19:25:33   google "red power magazine" for another info source. [Reply]  [No Email]
nys 08-27-2012 02:59:13 98.15.254.150 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Tfphill, 08-26-2012 19:25:33   I was told first to do on these is wash out trans screen and change filters, a lot of problems were fixed this way. good luck [Reply]  [No Email]
Tfphill 08-27-2012 03:33:23 208.0.101.113 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to nys, 08-27-2012 02:59:13   And if the filter and screen are clean, what else could the problem be? [Reply]  [No Email]
Fritz Maurer 08-27-2012 22:05:05 216.137.137.190 Report to Moderator	Re: Internation 175b torque converter trans issue in reply to Tfphill, 08-27-2012 03:33:23   Find out what high idle RPM is supposed to be and make sure the engine is not at fault. [Reply]  [No Email]