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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

hitachi 120-3 hydraulic problem, need shop manual

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07-23-2012 21:30:54

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The only source I could find was dealer for a manual, and they need to order it. Anybody have one to sell, or could I "see" the hydraulic pump section? Thanks.

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07-27-2012 16:17:49

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 Re: hitachi 120-3 hydraulic problem, need shop manual in reply to wilko, 07-23-2012 21:30:54  
For a manual try, I may be totally wrong in what I say because the machines we get in the UK are often different than the ones sold in the US,if it the same as its UK cousin I doubt if there is anything wrong with the hydraulic pump,the pump on our versions is a single variable flow pump,the oil is dived in the main control valve,the machine has an electronic brain that senses the loads and diverts the pressure accordingly,the control unit seldom gives trouble but it could prove well worth while to remove the multi-plug from it and replug it a few times in case there are any bad connections,if that brings no joy the next best thing to do is have an engineer from the dealer have a look at it,he will have the OBD reader and pinpoint the trouble in minutes,no good pulling the pump to bits for an o'ring in the valve block.

Good luck


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07-27-2012 21:06:14

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 Re: hitachi 120-3 hydraulic problem, need shop manual in reply to AJ., 07-27-2012 16:17:49  
Thanks for the tip, but all tradebit shows is the operators manual for my machine. The machine may have been looked at today, haven't heard yet. I did talk to the dealer shop, their basic attitude is along the lines of "A series 3? Those are obsolete." I have talked to other people with your theory, and Wayne's. I like your theory better, but you know what they say about what you like vs what you get.

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07-25-2012 19:49:05

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 Re: hitachi 120-3 hydraulic problem, need shop manual in reply to wilko, 07-23-2012 21:30:54  
Thanks Wayne. I've got a bad feeling it's the pump, but I guess I'll need to buy a book for it to save the mechanic some time. He's good (and 100% honest), just not schooled on Hitachi. Could get the Pape guy out, I just don't know anything about the mechanics there and I don't like the mega-corp monopoly mentality. As to the "renting it out" comment, I don't blame the guy, it's just that most machines I've known can tell when there's a new guy in the seat, and they often take advantage of it. The last time I let out it came back with a torn seal on the swing motor.

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07-26-2012 10:56:03

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 Re: hitachi 120-3 hydraulic problem, need shop manual in reply to wilko, 07-25-2012 19:49:05  
Glad to hear you have someone you can trust and is good enough to work on your machine. That said, if your guy has a flow meter with a true load valve arrangement (ie one with a rupture disc just in case he's loading it and the pump is the problem) and is as good as you say, he shouldn't need a book to do the flow test, except to get the exact specs. Given the problem exact specs probably aren't going to be needed as a sudden spike, drop, etc in flow and/or pressure will usually be so far outside of the norm that they will be obvious.

I've worked on several different brands and the usual way to flow test a main pump is to tie into the line directly off the pump being tested while capping the downstream side going to the valve body. Instead of going into, and out of the valve block like normal, the return flow goes into a T fitting put inline where the oil returns from the swing motor. With the meter hooked up being fed oil from the pump, and returning it to the T in the swing motor line, you can then start the machine. From there all thats left is to slowly close the load valve to load the pump, and see what happens. On a machine that size I'd guess your flow would be in the range of 30 to 40 GPM at around 5000 psi. Given the problem you might have to run it for awhile under a load to get everything warmed up so it will act up. I once ran one for nearly 30 minutes, under a load, before anything happened. Then what happened was the swash plate finally decided to move and when it did the surge created by the additional oil created a pressure spike that blew the 6000 psi rupture disc in my meter. That's why I mentioned earlier that to do a test in a situation like this a rupture disc in the flow meter is a must.

Good luck, and holler if you run into any problems along the way. I'll be glad to help out as much as I can.

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07-24-2012 18:16:38

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 Re: hitachi 120-3 hydraulic problem, need shop manual in reply to wilko, 07-23-2012 21:30:54  
I made the mistake of renting it out. The guy is cleaning out an irrigation ditch, so it's move 20 feet, dig, repeat. It'll be working fine, then when you move up it starts slow, then goes to normal travel speed. Digging is fine. After a few times of this, it will barely move and not return to normal speed, but still has normal power for digging. Move (at a crawl) a few more times, and speed and power at the boom is gone.
The problem always starts and progresses when you engage the travel motors.
He said that at first the problem would come and go, but now you just have to shut it down. Come back the next day and it will be slow for a few seconds, then it's fine for a while.
The pilot filter was perfect, pulled the suction screen and there wasn't even a speck of dirt on it. The bottom of the tank is 100% clean.

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07-24-2012 18:19:34

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 Re: hitachi 120-3 hydraulic problem, need shop manual in reply to wilko, 07-24-2012 18:16:38  
Forgot to mention, it did have a hole in the bottom of the muffler, so wiring could be the problem, Or a solenoid. Or maybe the pump. Unless it's something else.

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07-25-2012 09:06:37

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 Re: hitachi 120-3 hydraulic problem, need shop manual in reply to wilko, 07-24-2012 18:19:34  
Just posted the other reply and a new thought hit. When you travel there is a valve in the system that is called by several names like the cross over valve, the merge-divide valve, the straight travel valve, etc. It's function is to tie the flow from both pumps together in order to insure the flow going to each track motor is the same and, as one name states, to insure the machine travels in a straight line instead of vering off to one side due to one motor getting a bit more or less flow than the other. Too it can be opened when certain functions, like boom up, are actuated to give a higher flow to the function and thereby increase cycle times. If that valve were to stick open it could possibly cause problems with the other functions that operated off of one pump because it could blead off the pressure/flow from the one pump if the other pump wasn't active at the time. This scenerio is kind of stretching things a bit because several factors would all have to combine for it to possibly happen, but when brainstorning a problem like this you have to look at everything and eliminate the potential problems in the quest to zero in and find the actual problem.

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07-25-2012 08:57:25

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 Re: hitachi 120-3 hydraulic problem, need shop manual in reply to wilko, 07-24-2012 18:19:34  
If there is burned wiring then I'll agree that there probably would be issues there but that's something that would be impossible to tell without going into the computer and looking for, and troubleshooting any codes found. The only thing about that is if it were an electrical issue caused by a burned/shorted/open wire then the problem would more than likely be a constant thing and not semi intermittent, brought out by using one function, etc, etc.

The same holds true for a bad solenoid as a burned solenoid will cause constant problems vs intermittent problems.

That said, the last machine I ran into that had a problem similar to what your saying is happening was a CAT with a bad main pump. What happened there was the surface the swash plate rides on had become worn and uneven. In normal practice that surface is polished smooth so there is no binding, etc as the swash plate changes position and therefore the output/flow from the pump. When digging repatively the flow coming from the pump stays within a relatively small window so the swach plate isn't moving all that much. When you start to travel the flow required by the track motors causes the pumps to go to nearly their full flow, and full pressure to operate them. As far as the flow is concerned this means the swash plate is making a large move to cause that increase in flow, and on most excavator brands the system relief setting when in travel mode is also increased above the normal setting for other operations. In other words when you travel the pumps are working their butts off to keep up. Because of this problems with the pumps will typically show up when traveling even when you see no problems with any of the other functions.

Assuming that what I just talked about is what your seeing, here's why. Like I said earlier the surface the swash plate rides/pivots on has to be smooth to allow a seamless transision from one flow rate to another. This is happing constantly to some degree simply because the flow rate is directly tied to the pressure when it comes to these pumps. In other words as pressure rises, flow decreases. This happens in order to keep the pump pressure and flow output within the power limitations of the engine. When the swash plate can't move freely and is binding, it can cause the machine to do all kinds of strange things just like your describing. In the case of the other machine I mentioned even the part about letting it cool down and the problem seeming to go away for awhile was the same. Typically what happens there is a combination of the cold oil leaving a heavier film between the mating surfaces, coupled with the increased tollerances between the cold parts allows the swash plate to move a bit easier than it does when the oil gets hot and the film seperating parts shrinks and also the hot parts get larger and the tollerances shrink to a minimum. Inside those pumps tollerances are often down to thenths of thousands so it doesn't take much at all to cause one to start acting screwy.

Unfortunately the only way to check for a problem like that is to use a flow meter with loading capabilities. I know this probably isn't what you wanted to hear but, unfortunately, it's the the only way to check for problems with that type of pump with any degree of certaintly.

One last thing. An excavator is designed to work, not just sit around looking pretty. In other words what the guy you rented it to was doing was exactly what these machines are designed to do. So, unless he ran it low on oil, beat it up, or otherwise intentionally did something to screw it up, what happened more likely than not was not his fault. He was just unlucky enough to be the one operating it when the problem decided to rear it's ugly head. In other words, what I see when something like this happens, is that the problem was already there and it was nothing the guy operating it did, or could have done, and it was nothing you did or could have done to prevent the problem from happening. So, don't beat yourself up thinking you made a mistake renting it out and trying to make some money because with something like this it all comes down to the old saying, "$hit happens".

Good luck and as you get into the problem further and have any questions feel free to ask. My email is open if you want to do it off the boards.

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07-23-2012 21:51:23

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 Re: hitachi 120-3 hydraulic problem, need shop manual in reply to wilko, 07-23-2012 21:30:54  
Like Problem? said, tell us your problem. I've worked on the Hitachi's a little bit, and for that one they are basically the same as a similar sized Deere, which I have also done a bit of work on. Right now I've got a manual for an EX100-1 on the truck, that belongs to a customer. Even though it's a different machine, often the basic operation and parameters are the same between models of similar sizes.

So, what's the problem? Hopefully me or somebody else on here might be able to help out even without a manual because they are all but impossible to find except through the dealership. I looked for nearly 6 months for one for my customers EX100, right after he got it, but I finally gave up after finding nothing and he got one from the Dealership. Believe it or not it wasn't that expensive, especially compared to the factory manuals for many of the other brands.

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07-23-2012 21:39:26

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 Re: hitachi 120-3 hydraulic problem, need shop manual in reply to wilko, 07-23-2012 21:30:54  
Maybe it would help if described the problem you're having. There are several extremely knowledgeable HD mechanics on here.

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