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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Installing track pads?

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135 Fan

04-07-2008 13:14:23
68.149.51.25



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I'm still getting prices on undercarriage. Why are the dealers so stupid? I even gave one guy the part number for 37 link rails and he E-mailed me a price for 36 link rails! He also failed to list that the master link uses different bolts than the other track pads. It's very frustrating! It looks like $550 just to install new track pads on new rails, no swapping the old pads. If the old pads were swapped, as well, would be the same price. Is it a real pain to install new pads properly with the torque turn method? Dave

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AJ.

04-07-2008 16:28:57
195.93.21.130



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 Re: Installing track pads? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-07-2008 13:14:23  
If you are buying new rails and need new pads surely they come as an assembly i.e the pads put on in the factory,why buy seperate?.
AJ



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Bob/Ont

04-07-2008 17:18:05
172.130.60.149



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 Re: Installing track pads? in reply to AJ., 04-07-2008 16:28:57  
Dealers stock chains and stock pads. The same chains can have many different pads depending on application. That way they can cover more machines with less stock if they put on pads to order. Split master link has different bolt pattern and matching master pad.
Later Bob



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AJ.

04-08-2008 12:30:42
195.93.21.130



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 Re: Installing track pads? in reply to Bob/Ont, 04-07-2008 17:18:05  
Being in the repair business since 1953 and as we had own own track reconditioning I have been involved with tracks from every major manufacturer,Cat supplied complete track groups all ready to fit with the master pins and dust seals for the sealed track and the pad and bolts for the sealed and lubricated track,look at the drawing below,it is underlined in red the part number of the track group,i.e a complete track with pads fitted and master pin and seals.
AJ

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135 Fan

04-07-2008 17:44:59
68.149.51.25



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 Re: Installing track pads? in reply to Bob/Ont, 04-07-2008 17:18:05  
Don't understand why master pads are about $1 cheaper but they are. Bob, I sent you an e-mail. Double grousers are only available from Cat, so I don't need them that bad. Berco may have them, but they are more expensive than some Cat parts. Dave



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Bob/Ont

04-07-2008 17:55:48
172.130.60.149



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 Re: Installing track pads? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-07-2008 17:44:59  
Dave I have seen in bad times the price on undercarrage fall drastically from Cat.
I think they look a all the money tied up in it and discount the stock to free up that money for other things. Double bar will bite better but tripple should work fine.
Later Bob



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135 Fan

04-07-2008 16:37:48
68.149.51.25



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 Re: Installing track pads? in reply to AJ., 04-07-2008 16:28:57  
I have seen that but it isn't common. Everything is seperate. The master links come with the right bolts for them but that's about it other than idlers come complete. I think my idlers are still tight and just need a little build up, that I can do myself. Dave



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Jonathan in MA

04-07-2008 15:27:04
205.188.117.76



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 Re: Installing track pads? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-07-2008 13:14:23  
no real rocket science... just time consuming. Not sure what size tracks your dealing with either. If you do it yourself, you should sand the paint off of the track chains as well as off the surface of the pads where they attach to the chain.You will also be removing any high spots where the holes were punched in the pads. By doing it yourself, you'll know it gets done. If theres an appreciable layer of paint on both, the pads can loosen up when in use and once they loosen, they seem to never stay tight afterwards..

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NCWayne

04-07-2008 15:22:50
166.82.206.74



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 Re: Installing track pads? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-07-2008 13:14:23  
I'ver seen and/or participated in changing hundreds if not thousands of track pads over the years and have yet to see any of them "properly torqued" to the rails. The ones I have seen and done have typically been out in the field, miles away from any kind of high tech torque tooling, and considering how many bolts there are on a typical track I don't know of anyone who's gonna take the time to hand torque them all. When it comes time to change them, remember, new bolts are cheap to begin with and even cheaper when you consider the time to try to loosen them)so the best way to remove the old ones is with a torch. Make sure the back side of the pad and the top of the rail where they mate is clean and then bolt them up by hand. Then use the largest air wrench you think is feasible for that bolt size and let it hammer til it stops and then give it about another 10 to 15 seconds. I've never had a pad come loose that I know about. The problems I usually see with loose pads are people using the wrong (ie-regular) bolts instead of track bolts or trying to reuse old bolts. A good heavy duty impact, a compressor with enough CFM to handle that impact and you'll not have any problems with the pads coming loose doing it all by yourself.

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135 Fan

04-07-2008 16:33:36
68.149.51.25



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 Re: Installing track pads? in reply to NCWayne, 04-07-2008 15:22:50  
It's a 931B Cat (D3). I put track pads on before on another machine and just used a good impact wrench. From what I've heard, always use new bolts and torque them properly. If they are too tight they can break. Cat procedure is to torque them to a lower value initially and then give them a 1/3 turn more for proper bolt stretch. It doesn't give a torque value for final tightening. I realize the track shop is busy but I think if I'm buying several thousand dollars worth of undercarriage from them, through their dealers, it should be cheaper to just install all new pads and rails than to remove old pads and install on new rails as well. They're minimum on the track torque wrench is $550. I have more time than money but there is 296 bolts including the master links. Dave

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NCWayne

04-07-2008 18:06:43
166.82.206.74



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 Re: Installing track pads? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-07-2008 16:33:36  
Again all I can do is talk from personal experience. We've worked on alot of the same customers machines for many years and I've never, to my knowledge, had any of the bolts I've installed break like that. Like you said all CAT's method does is to stretch the bolt after you get it to their initial torque to give it a higher torque value. Now when torquing something critical like the bolts on a head when there are several different lengths and sizes involved I can see where the torque turn technique is needed but as a friend used to say in this case it ain't rocket science. Most track shops are gonna run an electric driven impact wrench and tighten them to whatever torque they need and go with that. I've never seen one taking the time to torque them and then give them an additional x amount of degrees of turn. CAT might do it from the factory but I've never seen an independent track shop do it because it's simply too time consuming. If you'll let me know the bolt size I'll do some calling and find out what the recomended "outright" torque is for your bolts. Even with a spec if your in the ballpark you shouldn't have any problems. I know there are alot of bolts but it still shouldn't take long to do, even on your own, if you've got a way to handle the rails and pads. Personally I always laid the rails down flat, in your case a few blocks under them wouldn't hurt to give easier access to the underside to start the nuts. Once you get them laid out do like the one post suggested and make sure there are no gobs of paint, burrs, etc on either the rail or pads and then lay out all the pads on the rail. Next drop in all the bolts and then hand start the nuts. When you get this done it's just a matter of walking along with the impact and spinning them all down tight. I remember doing a set for a D6 or D7 some years back where we were cutting off the old pads and putting them on a new set of rails. If I remember right, with a helper it tooks me something like 3 days to do it all. In your case I'd about guarantee you you could knock them out in a day or two if you wanted to and felt up to it.

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135 Fan

04-08-2008 11:08:37
68.149.51.25



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 Re: Installing track pads? in reply to NCWayne, 04-07-2008 18:06:43  
I think a good track wrench in a shop automatically puts the 1/3rd turn on the bolt. If I found out the torque, I think around 200 ft. lbs. for 9/16's fine thread track bolts, I'd put the rails on first and then put the pads on on the machine. I have a hoe on the back so I can pick the whole track frame up. On a Cat like a D7 it would be a lot harder to overtighten a pad bolt. 200 or so ft. lbs. could easily be exceeded with a good impact wrench. I realize it's not rocket science but it is very important. I don't want to have problems with loose pads or broken bolts, especially after paying a small fortune to put new tracks on. I thought about seeing if I could get a torque bar for 200 ft.lbs. to use with an impact wrench. It would make it a lot easier. Dave

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your making it....

04-08-2008 17:03:10
70.9.156.129



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 Re: Installing track pads? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-08-2008 11:08:37  
a LOT harder than it is. clean the paint off the rails and hammer them down with a good 3/4 dr impact.

they will stay tight and your rails are not gonna break



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135 Fan

04-08-2008 19:50:50
68.149.51.25



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 Re: Installing track pads? in reply to your making it...., 04-08-2008 17:03:10  
I'm not worried about the rails breaking. Over tightening the bolts will make the bolts break. I need a bunch of new pads because they came loose. I'm sure a 3/4 inch impact would be too tight for 9/16's bolt. I also don't trust an impact too much to get the same torque all the time. That's why I thought a torque bar might work. From everything I've read and heard from experts, proper torque is important if you don't want problems later on. Dave

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