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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Case 207 engine head gasket question

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DarylC

01-30-2008 07:36:36




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Thanks for taking the time to read this, I've got a Case backhoe with a 207 diesel engine that was leaking coolant into the engine oil. I pulled the pan and could see coolant coming from between piston and sleeve on #2, so I pulled the head. One top of each of the sleeves, you could see a shiny ring where the metal "fire ring" in the head gasket had sealed to the sleeve, with the exception of about a 1 inch long area on sleeve #2 where the coolant was leaking in. There is a small amount of pitting in this area. Enough that I'm worried about a new headgasket being able to seal it off. Is there any solution to this, except re-sleeving the engine? Are there any type of silicon sealants, JB weld, etc. that someone out there has used to fix this type of problem? Any help would be much appreciated! Daryl

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DarylC

02-01-2008 07:39:21




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 Re: Case 207 engine head gasket question in reply to DarylC, 01-30-2008 07:36:36  
Thanks for everyone's advice. I think I've decided to resleeve. I found a Clevite kit that had 4 sleeves, pistons, rings, pins, rod bearings, and full gasket set for $600 (shipping included; found on ebay). Plus, I wasn't sure how the engine would wear with one higher compression cylinder and three running with older parts at lower compression. Since I've already got it this far apart, and free time is a precious commodity, I've decided I don't want to take a chance I'll have to take it apart again. I'm going to just do an "in-frame" rebuild. In the Case service book, there's an detailed way to check sleeve protrusion using special Case tools, plastigage, etc. If I clean up the sleeve bores really well, so that I'm sure the sleeve is seated well onto the block, do you guys think all that is necessary? The old liners look fine, I don't see any low spots in them. Thanks, Daryl

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AJ.

02-02-2008 02:10:08




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 Re: Case 207 engine head gasket question in reply to DarylC, 02-01-2008 07:39:21  
If the engine was starting,running ok and has power,not burning oil I would just replace the gasket as I suggested before,when you go to the expence of replacing the pistons and sleeves you may as well have the head checked and the valves looked at,then there is the fuel injection equipment that is the same age which would need removing and serviced as well,then you have the crank and bearings to consider,puting in sleeves and pistons is only 1/4 of the engine,leaving the crank,fuel injection and head.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
AJ

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AJ.

01-30-2008 13:59:41




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 Re: Case 207 engine head gasket question in reply to DarylC, 01-30-2008 07:36:36  
Hard to say without seeing but when head gaskets fail thats the way they go,they blow out a piece of the firewall,I would put on a new gasket on its own and if it fails then resleeve,that engine has wet liners.
AJ



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RAB

01-30-2008 14:52:21




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 Re: Case 207 engine head gasket question in reply to AJ., 01-30-2008 13:59:41  
OK. Pitted on top face of liner?

May not need to re-sleeve and little point in putting new gasket on if it needs remedial work first (or later). You have found the problem, so fix it now rather than the added expense of another gasket, more down-time and possible further damage to the engine.

1) Is the liner/piston serviceable otherwise?

2) If so, mark liner (for replacement in exactly same position as previous.

3) Remove liner and mark again on side (as previous mark may be removed).

4) Machine of top face just enough to remove pits.

5) Replace liner in exactly same orientation as previous but using shims to keep liner protrusion as specification.

6) Rebuild rest of top end.

Job done. Will work as long as metal removed from liner is not excessive - like removing most of the top ring on the liner! Just try to put everything back in same position (liner and piston ring gaps) if there is wear, or things may probably never bed in properly again.

hope this helps.

Regards, RAB

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CHinNY

01-31-2008 03:59:09




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 Re: Case 207 engine head gasket question in reply to RAB, 01-30-2008 14:52:21  
Why would you do all that. A liner it self is not that much i bet cheaper then machine work and labor if you have to have machine work done. I believe a new liner is $100. or less Its in the $140-160 range with piston, pin and rings.



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AJ.

01-31-2008 16:21:44




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 Re: Case 207 engine head gasket question in reply to CHinNY, 01-31-2008 03:59:09  
From EPS a piston & sleeve kit is $135 per hole for the early engines and $137 for the later,as I am in the repair business since 1953 and proably changed more head gaskets than most as it was quite common back then to have gaskets "go" I would put on a new gasket for the few bucks its costs and if it fails it won"t break the bank,heat spots like that are ok providing that where the firewall of the gasket sits on the sleeve is not low,those liners have a small step on top,clean off the carbon fron the top and put a straight edge across it and ckeck the clearance with a feeler gauge,if its not low stick on a new gasket and button it up.
Good luck
AJ

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RAB

01-31-2008 09:04:36




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 Re: Case 207 engine head gasket question in reply to CHinNY, 01-31-2008 03:59:09  
WHY?

Because he will need to take it out anyway.

You wrote: "all that"

Skimming will only take a couple of minutes after setting up in the lathe. I would know how much the protusion was before removal, how much I had removed, so shim-stock thickness I needed to keep/get the correct protrusion.

The poster asked for an alternative. I gave him one.

Poster did not give an addy so I did not assume one - this is a world-wide web and not just a local chat shop just for those in the US.

I live in the UK and a sleeve would probably cost more than that in GBP.

If I were to change out the sleeve I would change out all of them if they showed appreciable wear.

My labour costs would be zilch as I don't charge myself.

I know not the condition of the engine bottom end either. This way you do not alter the conditions appreciably.

This is, in my view, already too much a 'throw away' society. So why just dump an otherwise perfect item?

So there are a few reasons for my post.

Want any more reasons? The guy can probably make up his own mind what he is going to do or he may choose to bury his head in the sand, just change out the head gasket and hope it doesn't fail again.

RAB

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