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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

JCB 1400B FROTHING TRANNY FLUID

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M Hamilton

11-22-2006 15:10:53
216.254.165.94



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Hi Guys,

Any body know why my tranny fluid would froth and bubble? it comes out of the top of the fill tube. I have used the correct JCB fluid, BUT prior to doing so, there was some THD fluid in the tranny, I drained all of the THD stuff and drained the torque converter and filled with the proper stuff. Could it be a reaction between the residual improper THD fluid and the JCB fluid? it seems to froth up and overflow out of the fill tube then drains the tranny to a degree. Could there be a blockage or something? any ideas?

Thanks as always

Mike

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ajk

11-23-2006 03:13:49
195.93.21.130



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 Re: JCB 1400B FROTHING TRANNY FLUID in reply to M Hamilton, 11-22-2006 15:10:53  
There are two types of shuttle,in the mid eighties JCB changed from using Borg Warner shuttle box to ZF,badged JCB,the BW shuttle had a cable operated forward/reverse lever and the ZF was electric F/R,a short lever stork on the left of steering column,if you got the ZF there is one spin on filter on the left side of the box and one suction strainer under a plate near the filter,if you got the BW shuttle there is no external filter but there is a pickup strainer in the little sump pan on the bottom,the pan has to be removed to service it,there is an o"ring on the pipe of the strainer if its gone hard it could draw air,the most common cause of the fluid coming from the filler of the BW shuttle is an inline check valve on the box,there is a pipe that goes from A to B on the box,in the middle there is a piece of hexagon bar about 3/4 inches,inside that bar is a ball and spring,the ball can jam or the spring break and that can causes the fluid to come out the filler,it is best to take off the whole pipe than try to take the valve part from it to inspect it,the valve comes apart,I have never known the ZF to throw the oil out so i can"t make any suggestions about that except to clean the strainer and change the filter,in both cases have a look at the lines that goes and comes from the cooler,see that they did not get a knock and are kinked and blocking the fluid flow,as was said in the other post the fluid level is checked with the engine on low idle.
Good luck
AJ

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M Hamilton

11-23-2006 06:00:57
209.183.19.91



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 Re: JCB 1400B FROTHING TRANNY FLUID in reply to ajk, 11-23-2006 03:13:49  
Sounds by your description that its the BW unit, it has the screw on filter and the metal strainer.

It is impossible to check the level with enging running because of the frothing.

Can you explain where this check valve is is it on the shifter valve on the top of the tranny, you say "on the box" how do I locate the check valve to check it? is it inside the shifter valve?

Also I think my seal on the strainer (metal filter on side) is gone could this possibly cause air to be "drawn" into the system?

The tranny cooler lines are good, I have checked already.

Also wondering if the shifter valve works shifts with Tranny fluid or Hydraulic system fluid, I asume it is tranny fluid correct?

Thanks
Mike

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ajk

11-23-2006 14:36:05
195.93.21.130



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 Re: JCB 1400B FROTHING TRANNY FLUID in reply to M Hamilton, 11-23-2006 06:00:57  
No its not a Borg Warner if you see a filter on it,so you do not have the inline valve, the ZF is a shuttle and gearbox combined, the same fluid lubes the tranny gears, supplies the torque convertor and the FR clutch packs,if the strainer was clean then it must be pulling air somewhere else, there is a seal on the input shaft of the charge pump [item no 33] that could be worn and drawing air,there is only one relief valve that I know of it is under item no 16 in the drawing,go to the link below,its much later than yours but its basically the same.

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M Hamilton

11-23-2006 16:53:59
216.254.159.252



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 Re: JCB 1400B FROTHING TRANNY FLUID in reply to ajk, 11-23-2006 14:36:05  
Thanks, been checking for your answer, I'm gonna crawl under the machine and verify the BG/ZF thing. was going by memory. ( my freakin' house caught fire last week and I'm in a hotel) but I'll go over and verify the Z/BG thing, all I can say FOR sure is there is a metallic strainer/ filter on the left lower side as you sit in the seat and the valve pack is on top towards the rear of the machine. I will verify it though, sorry if I jumped the gun...

Thx Mike

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ajk

11-24-2006 01:14:00
195.93.21.130



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 Re: JCB 1400B FROTHING TRANNY FLUID in reply to M Hamilton, 11-23-2006 16:53:59  
That description says it not a Borg Warner as there is no external filters on them,JCBs call that shuttle their own,[they may build it under licence]the details of whats fitted should be on the serial no plate,I never had that trouble with the electric change shuttle,I work on lots of JCBs as the are very common here in the UK,I will have a word with some of my colleagues to see if any had the problem. sorry about your house.
AJ

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M Hamilton

11-24-2006 14:23:32
209.183.20.8



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 Re: JCB 1400B FROTHING TRANNY FLUID in reply to ajk, 11-24-2006 01:14:00  
The strainer/filter is recessed into the body of the tranny and is fixed by a cover plate and 2 bolts, like in the picture you pointed me to item# 14 (exactly), I will go over to the house and look for a protruding filter or other distinguishing aspects and report back.

I DO know that I have a small leak going at the gasket point of item 14, do you think that this leak could be sucking air into the system. I put transparent tubing to the tranny rad so I could monitor the fluid flow etc, and there is tons of air bubbles going through it looks like carbonated pop. I had drained the whole system and put the proper JCB tranny fluid in, but the bubbling and frothing has continued (as mentioned to the point at which it froths out of the fill tube) I will verify the tranny features against the picture you provided and let you know later tonight.

I REALLY appreciate the help, there are not many JCB men out there.

Thanks
Mike

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M Hamilton

11-24-2006 15:57:04
209.183.20.8



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 Re: AJK Tranny verification in reply to M Hamilton, 11-24-2006 14:23:32  
Hi AJK the tranny is exactly like the blow out picture that you gave me with the external cannister filter and valve pack. Can you suggest something on this basis?

Thanks
Mike



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ajk

11-25-2006 15:25:47
195.93.21.130



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 Re: AJK Tranny verification in reply to M Hamilton, 11-24-2006 15:57:04  
Remove and clean the suction filter #14,make a new gasket out of a piece of card of the same thickness it may be drawing air there the other area it could be drawing air is the pump seals #33 and 36.
Good luck
AJ



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JonathaninMA

11-22-2006 15:46:40
64.12.117.6



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 Re: JCB 1400B FROTHING TRANNY FLUID in reply to M Hamilton, 11-22-2006 15:10:53  
I'm not directly familiar with that model or transmission or JCB in general... but usually when a transmission or reverser does that it could be something as simple as the oil level being too low. If it has a torque converter, which I'm assuming it does, the oil level is generally checked with the engine running... Another possibility is a leak in the suction side of the pump. Is any of the suction plumbing external where it can be checked ? or is it all internal?.. If its internal , then overfilling to check for a point where it doesnt foam(aerate) might help to determine where the suction leak is. If there is a suction screen in the transmission that is clogged, that can cause an aerating problem also...

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M Hamilton

11-22-2006 16:00:03
216.254.165.94



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 Re: JCB 1400B FROTHING TRANNY FLUID in reply to JonathaninMA, 11-22-2006 15:46:40  
Are you saying that an air leak in the pump area could be Aerating in to the fluid? It doesn't seem to have anything to do with level, Hi, low medium, it just froths out the top of the tube.

I can see where sucking air could cause it though, I have never thought of this. It does have a torque converter, what does the torque converter have to do with the issue again?

Thanks
Mike



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