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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

John Deere 450 Steering Clutches

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Tweeter

10-27-2006 15:14:08
72.9.19.50



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My JD straight 450 crawler will not steer either direction. I bought a tech manual for it and started studying it. I pulled the hood off today and found that the power steering reservoir was completely empty. So, I added fluid and the steering levers (when pulled back) jerk or bounce rapidly and it still will not turn. The transmission fluid is full too. Of the H-L-R transmission, the R does not work either.

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Roy Suomi

10-29-2006 19:55:24
69.165.41.192



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 Re: John Deere 450 Steering Clutches in reply to Tweeter, 10-27-2006 15:14:08  
Tweeter....I've never seen any 450's with any transmission option....All have a 4 speed gear transmission and a HLR clutchpack [ also called powershift] transmission. All transmission parts run in oil , therefore nothing rusts there.Does your 450 have a shifter on the floor and a shifter on the left armrest?? or are both shifters mounted on the left armrest?? There was a factory modification some years ago that entailed changing a shift valve spool inside the transmission and grinding a neutral position in the gearchange shift quadrant..There was also a small decal in the kit that had a number stamped into it designating that the modification was done..Deere had a problem with machines taking off if not properly brake locked..The shift valve spool in the modification had a wider neutral groove cut in it..

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Tweeter

10-29-2006 20:08:45
72.9.19.50



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 Re: John Deere 450 Steering Clutches in reply to Roy Suomi, 10-29-2006 19:55:24  
This machine has one lever up on the left arm rest for changing between 4 speeds. Then the HLR lever is on the floor between your legs.



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oilygains

10-29-2006 10:39:02
65.90.11.196



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 Re: John Deere 450 Steering Clutches in reply to Tweeter, 10-27-2006 15:14:08  
Just finished HLR transmission repair on my 450. Not fun. Check pressures as in tech book before tear down. My reverse was out due to excessive wear in shifting maniold. Finding replacement manifold was difficult. 450B and later have different manifold. Good luck.



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Tweeter

10-29-2006 18:28:06
72.9.19.50



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 Re: John Deere 450 Steering Clutches in reply to oilygains, 10-29-2006 10:39:02  
I was reading through my Repair Manual and now I am not sure what transmission I have in my 450. How can I tell which is in it? If it were a HLR trans, what usually happens to the Reverser clutch pack to not allow it to function? Do the clutch plates rust together or are they in oil? Might my 450 just need an adjustment? I noticed today that when I started the engine the tranny was in speed 1 and range in N the machine creeped forward a bit.

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Tweeter

10-29-2006 19:46:40
72.9.19.50



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 Re: John Deere 450 Steering Clutches in reply to Tweeter , 10-29-2006 18:28:06  
I figured it out with my Serial Number. I have a HLR transmission.



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Roy Suomi

10-27-2006 19:39:38
69.165.41.192



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 Re: John Deere 450 Steering Clutches in reply to Tweeter, 10-27-2006 15:14:08  
Thr jerking is a normal reaction.Thats the way they worked. It wasn't a smooth operating system. The steering is all mechanical . There is a tin cover on top of each steering clutch housing under the seat [ I think 5 3/8 inch bolts on each cover ] With the covers off , you can watch the movement of the linkage..The long 3/8" bolt is the free-play adjustment . Excluding any slop in the linkage, the lever should have about an inch of free-play like any other clutch. Then the throw-out bearing begins to disengage the clutch . After there is some slippage in the clutch, then the brake band clamps around the exterior of the clutch drum causing the track to stop thus steering the machine..Now that we understand the operation of this now's the time to troubleshoot it..In many cases I've seen the clutches wet causing rusting of the clutch disks and plates insude the clutch drum..These machines should always be covered with a tarp from the dashboard over the top of fuel tank to keep water / snow from sitting on top of steering covers..Water can and will get inside through lever bushings and top covers..Inside the top covers you will notice a shorter 5/16" bolt. This is the brake timing bolt. One knuckle there should be Keyed to the shaft and the other knuckle should turn on the shaft.Many times the knuckles are rusted tight and won't operate right.Also in there you will find a 13/16" bolt head standing upright , this is the brake band adjustment. As far as the HLR transmission goes..With the machine off , Listen to the HLR shift detents . There should be a definite click as it shifts into each gear range.If reverse doesn't have this click , look for loose shifter linkage or clevis adjustment that will allow the transmission to shift into full range. I have had to relieve the shifter quadrant with a file to allow the shifter lever to go further than it is supposed to go..If it does click fully into reverse , there might be a pressure problem with the transmission. Look into archives for HLR adjustments..I know I've got a bunch of solutions along with my other learned colliegues there.. good luck

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Tweeter

10-28-2006 20:06:27
72.9.19.50



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 Re: John Deere 450 Steering Clutches in reply to Roy Suomi, 10-27-2006 19:39:38  
I do not hear a definite click when shifting into the R position. I did disconnect the linkage on the side of the tranny and manually tried to shift into R and nothing happened. Where did you have to grind with a file? As for the steering clutches, I took the inspection covers off and found that both bands are intact and not broken. They both move slightly off the drum too. Do they just need adjusting? Also, the steering levers have all kinds of play in them. Neither seem to have any type of resistance until they are pulled very close to the seat.

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Roy Suomi

10-28-2006 21:24:51
69.165.41.192



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 Re: John Deere 450 Steering Clutches in reply to Tweeter, 10-28-2006 20:06:27  
If it didn't move when you unhooked the transmission linkage . You've got a serious problem with the HLR unit, reverse clutch..The file job was in the end of the shift quadrant where the lever stops for reverse..You have a tech manual , Right ???? Please read the operational description on steering clutches at the beginning of the steering section..Once you understand the operation of the clutches , you will better be able to troubleshoot your steering ..I've got a sneaky feeling that you're looking at a pricy repair for HLR overhaul and steering clutch rebuild.. I usually adjust the 13/16" headed bolt till it stops and then back it off 2 notches.Thats a good place to start with the steering brake band adjustment....

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Tweeter

10-29-2006 04:38:48
72.9.19.50



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 Re: John Deere 450 Steering Clutches in reply to Roy Suomi, 10-28-2006 21:24:51  
I looked over the manual and I plan on doing the adjustment for the steering clutches. When you say nothces, what do you mean? The book uses the term detents, what does that mean? If I have to pull the reverser clutch from the machine, I'm going to do the steering clutches too. What else should be replaced if I were to split the machine? If the H and L clutches work, should they be replaced anyway? What kind of serious money does this all involve? If the reverser clutch is rusted up from sitting, can I remove a cover and try breaking the rust down with PB Blaster? Im also guessing that the steering clutches are rusted together too.

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Roy Suomi

10-29-2006 20:15:00
69.165.41.192



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 Re: John Deere 450 Steering Clutches in reply to Tweeter, 10-29-2006 04:38:48  
Sorry I didn't see the part about steering clutch " notches "...When I refered to this , I meant this ... The bolt has a thick washer welded to the bottom side of the head..On this washer is a cutout that works like a cam. The bolt passes thru the side of a pin ..As you turn the bolt , the cam rubs on the pin ..The tighter you take it , the harder it is to turn it in 180 degree increments. This " cam " action keeps the bolt from backing off once the adjustment is made.. Getting back to the HLR repair, This is not for the faint at heart..This is quite an undertaking, especially for someone who hasn't done one before..Is your machine a dozer or loader???? Early loaders are a pistol to work around...I've gone so far as to remove the loader from the machine on these early loaders..I can't get my fleshy butt between the tank assembly and the loader uprights..There are many "tricks of the trade " used in the repair of these transmissions..

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Roy Suomi

10-29-2006 20:41:52
69.165.41.192



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 Re: John Deere 450 Steering Clutches in reply to Roy Suomi, 10-29-2006 20:15:00  
If 1 clutchpack works , they should all work unless there's a pressure loss somewhere.There's a " Drum Bung " directly under the floor shifter.If you remove this drum bung plug , there'll be an eighth pipe plug in there on an angle..It should have a 3/16" allen wrench opening in it . Put some grease on the end of the allen wrench and remove the plug[ this will allow removing the plug without loosing it in the hole]..Get a 200 lb gauge and install a flexible grease gun hose on it..It makes for easier reading of the gauge..You might have to extend the end of the hose with a pipe coupling and a 1/8 pipe nipple to clear obstructions in the " bung hole"...That didn't sound right , did it?? Anyhow, read the pressures at half throttle, gear transmission between 3rd gear and 4th gear[ there's a neutral in there . You might have to feel around for it]..Lock the brake pedal down ,Shift the floor shifter into low , high and reverse..Record the pressure readings..Just for giggles, I'll bet pressures aren't any higher than 130 lbs....Should be 165 to 180 lbs..Also when the transmission is adjusted right , you should be able to shift from reverse to high or high to reverse at full throttle without clutching it at all..

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Tweeter

10-29-2006 20:23:02
72.9.19.50



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 Re: John Deere 450 Steering Clutches in reply to Roy Suomi, 10-29-2006 20:15:00  
Mine is a dozer with outside blade. I would like to troubleshoot this before I do anything that is the reason for all the questions. Im guessing that the first step is to make the adjustment and see what happens. But will the adjustment have a negative effect because the High and Low work as of now. When I shift into Rev. nothing at all happens, its like the machine is in Neutral.



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MN Scott

10-29-2006 19:21:22
206.9.216.92



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 Re: John Deere 450 Steering Clutches in reply to Tweeter, 10-29-2006 04:38:48  
The HLR runs in oil in the main transmission case. This includes all three clutches. If you have a manual it should be clear to you if you study it. Others on here have put the price of a HLR rebuild at $500 to $5000 in parts, all depends on the parts you need to replace. If you go thru the work of replacing the reverse clutch pack you will have it all tornen down so you might as well go thru every thing. I don't mean to be a SA but from reading your past posts I get the feeling a HLR rebuild might be over your head. Also sounds like this dozer is going to take much more $$ to get going than it is worth. But hey just a suggestion I enjoy a challenge to and many times I end up spending to much but in the end I enjoy operating a machine I brought back from the dead. Good Luck!!

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Tweeter

10-29-2006 20:05:31
72.9.19.50



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 Re: John Deere 450 Steering Clutches in reply to MN Scott, 10-29-2006 19:21:22  
Thanks for the support. That just what a first time bulldozer owner wants to here. I have studied the manual but it is unclear to me as to what happens to just the reverse clutch that doesnt allow it to function but the high and low function fine. The transmission fluid is and was full when I got it. Does the fluid enter into the clutches making them 'wet' or does the fluid just engage the clutch by pressure? If they are not 'wet' than I can understand that the clutches might be rusted together. By the way, what is this machine worth?

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