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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

D4 CAT PONY MOTOR STARTING INSTRUCTIONS

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Bryan Kneebone

04-10-2006 07:10:41
63.172.67.56



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I JUST PURCHASED A D4 CATERPILLAR DOZER. I WAS WONDERING IF SOMEONE COULD GIVE ME SOME INSTRUCTIONS ON STARTING THE PONY MOTOR AND THE LARGE MOTOR. I DO NOT KNOW IF THERE IS A DECAL ON THE MACHINE THAT TELLS ME WHAT TO DO. I DO HAVE A 720 JOHN DEERE WITH A PONY MOTOR, SO I HAVE STARTED ENGINES WITH PONY MOTORS BEFORE. I WAS WONDERING IF SOMEONE COULD SHED SOME LIGHT ON THIS FOR ME. I AM WONDERING IF IT IS SIMULAR TO THE 720 JD. THANKS FOR YOUR TIME. BK

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Billy NY

04-10-2006 10:42:21
64.12.117.6



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 Re: D4 CAT PONY MOTOR STARTING INSTRUCTIONS in reply to Bryan Kneebone, 04-10-2006 07:10:41  
Principle is the same as the JD 720 I'm sure, that ought to be helpful experience.

Master clutch should be in neutral, transmission in neutral, ( when the diesel is running, and if left unattended or used for stationary work, leave the transmission in neutral and the clutch engaged, keeps it from accidentally popping into gear and I think is less wear on the pilot bearing, something along those lines, again don't quote me )

One thing to remember about these, they are not high tech. little motors, keep your oil clean, the carburetors on these can and do leak down gasoline, which will thin the motor oil, so always be on the lookout for that, if you do not drain the bowl down somehow, let it run out of gas by shutting the petcock on the sediment bowl or tank after the diesel fires.

The fuel tanks often contain lots of rust and your fuel supply can get clogged easily, that and keeping your magneto & ingition system firing a hot spark, champion plugs don't seem to perform well from what many people have said and used solid core conductor plug wires, with copper wire, not like modern plug wires.

Reason I mention this is, starting motors can be problematic if not taken care of, and the gasoline in the oil thing will certainly thing the oil to the point where you could toss a rod.

Once the pony is running, make sure the diesel compression lever is on start, then engage your pinion, you should have a pinion lever and a clutch lever, disengage the clutch and engage the pinion, then engage the cltuch and the diesel should spin, if cold out, let the diesel spin awhile, pinion should stay locked in, (if not it needs adjustment or something is wrong ) always wait for oil pressure to build up, you can turn the compression lever to half or run after a little while, the pony may die bog down, sometimes you might back off the compression and try again, but eventually the diesel will build up heat, and will not resist as much, and it will spin with compression on, then open the fuel and it should start popping, you'll see some white smoke and if its got good compression it will fire right up. When it does, it should disengage the pinion by centrifugal force, however, I keep a hand on the throttle linkage and am always ready to stop it from overspeeding the pony, another little thing to watch for.

ALso, I'm not familiar with the D-6's to D-2's starting engine, but the principle is the same.

I'm also not sure if the diesel needs to spin to circulate coolant, so you may want to check that prior to firing it up and letting it run without spinning the diesel, on my D7, you have to spin the diesel or you will overheat the pony.

Once my diesel fires, I found a way to drain the bowl with a petcock, takes too long to run out, then I know nothing can drain into the oil.

These are great for the bitter cold starts, direct start conversions can be done and do have associated costs, not cheap, same for rebuilding a starting motor, direct start does not allow you to build oil pressure and warming the coolant, kind of conditioning the diesel prior to starting. There are preferences for either direct start or a starting engine, I like the benefits you get for these old tech diesels from a starting engine, I think the later models after the starting engines were phased out, were better suited for direct start, but don't quote me, often wondered if a starting engine prolonged the life of the diesel because of how it gets the oil circulating etc. prior to firing up. Interesting topic there.

You can find the operators instructions, serviceman's reference book, and parts catalog on e-bay, and through Cat's legendary literature program, all three are well worth having. You can find good originals on e-bay, the ones from Cat are excellent reprints, beware of lesser quality ones, usually the spiral bound photcopied ones, won't mention the name of the outfit providing those. You need to match these manuals to the serial number of your tractor, just make sure the serial number of yours falls within the range of serial numbers of what the manuals say on the cover.

I do stand to be corrected here, this is a quick lunchtime response here, FYI your cap. locks are on.

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Horaceturlock

05-20-2006 11:46:39
206.251.3.39



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 Re: D4 CAT PONY MOTOR STARTING INSTRUCTIONS in reply to Billy NY, 04-10-2006 10:42:21  
Sir, I am not too good with online skill, hope this gets thru. My son and I just bought a D47U Cat. It runs, but has some issues. The poney motor roars. It dosent seem like the carburator or govenor controls anything. If we choke it we can throttle it down some and engage the diesel. Does it sound like we need to rebuild the carb? Any sources for parts or manuals? Thank you . feel free to email or call collect Steve Parker 717-486-3159

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Billy NY

05-20-2006 12:27:43
64.12.117.6



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 Re: D4 CAT PONY MOTOR STARTING INSTRUCTIONS in reply to Horaceturlock, 05-20-2006 11:46:39  
I'm not familiar with that horizontal opposed starting engine, however the principles of operation are likely to be similar.

It probably has a Zenith carburetor on it, check out: http://www.zenithfuelsystems.com
They usually need a good cleaning, there are a few things to know about them, and I will reiterate the gas leaking down into the crankcase oil, thinning it, I'm not sure what the cause of this is, somehow fuel ends up draining down, so it's best to shut the petcock off, and drain the bowl after the diesel fires, some people allow the engine to run out, which seems to take too long on mine. There has to be a reason the carb allows this to happen, more prevalent on the D4's type starting engine, one of my D7's overflowed the crankcase with gasoline once, and the fact that these are not high tech, splash lubed high revving motors, costly to rebuild, very wise to take care of them, they are great when properly maintained.

You may want to see if the governor is working properly, you do not want to overspeed one of these on its own or allowing the diesel to overspeed it when it fires, I hold the throttle linkage and as soon as the diesel just starts to fire, I throttle the pony down, let the diesel's centrifugal force kick out the pinion and then kill the pony, drain the bowl out with a petcock and short hose, ( gasoline, so I'm careful although it may not be the safest method, it's contained in a coffee can, and I have a welders glove on )

Fuel systems, and ignition systems on these must be properly maintained for good performance ans are usually the culprit when they act up.

You can engage the pinion prior to starting the pony,use the pony clutch to disengage power to the pinion after it is running, when you are ready to turn the diesel, engage the clutch, I've done this when mine was hard to get engaged. There are adjustments that can be made, the pony clutch may not be working properly, making it hard to get engage, if the pony is at a high r.p.m. it may be difficult as well, another item to consider is the adjustment for the diesel's centrifugal force( disengagement speed ) kicks out the latches that hold the pinion, you need to record the serial number of your 7U series tractor and get the serviceman's reference book, the parts catalog, and the operators instructions, all of which may be found as used original prints on E-bay:

http://business.listings.ebay.com/Heavy-Equipment-Parts-Manuals_Repair-Operations-Manuals_W0QQfromZR4QQsacategoryZ48713QQsocmdZListingItemList

or new reprints from Cat's Legendary literature program, ask for the phone number on the ACMOC or ACME websites, these are antique caterpillare machinery owner and the latter is enthusiasts websites, an excellent resource for old Caterpillar owners. The discussion forums are an excellent place to ask technical questions.

ALso remember if you run the starting engine and are not turning the diesel over, you may not be circulating coolant through the pony, it will overheat and could cause serious damage, not sure if the D4 7U's are like that but my D7 is, don't take long for it to get hot without coolant circulating.

Keep your oil clean and up to the full mark, diagnose any problems and do the necessary work to correct any problems, if it has good compression and not a lot of end play in the flywheel/crank shaft odds are it's in good condition, properly maitained, should perform well for years. If you notice any problems with compression or excessive endplay on the flywheel, better to correct the problem before a catastrophic failure, you'll be in for a rebuild or converting to direc electric start which may be a little expensive. I may be off on this, as I'm not familiar with this model, others may have better specifics on this particular tractor.


ACME:

http://www.antiquecaterpillar.net/ACF_v2/index.php?

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Horaceturlock

05-20-2006 15:07:12
206.251.3.39



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 Re: D4 CAT PONY MOTOR STARTING INSTRUCTIONS in reply to Billy NY, 05-20-2006 12:27:43  
Thanks for the response. As far as the runaway pony motor goes, is there a simple explnation for our inability to get it to throttle back? maybe it is a race pony??



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Bryan Kneebone

04-10-2006 11:02:46
63.172.67.56



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 Re: D4 CAT PONY MOTOR STARTING INSTRUCTIONS in reply to Billy NY, 04-10-2006 10:42:21  
THANK YOU SO MUCH!! This will really help. I was looking for some reassurance.

Thanks again for your time and response.


B.Kneebone
Jefferson SD
email: bkneebone@aaladin.com

Jefferson, SD



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