JD 450 Hydraulic oil leaking into engine?

Kitch · May 5, 2019

I've got a 450 c and am wondering if it is possible for the hydraulic oil to somehow leak into the engine oil? If so, what can be done to rectify the situation? TIA... Al

JDEM · May 5, 2019

Is it a 450 or a 450C? You have both listed. Older machines before the C-series can have an engine-mounted power-steering pump that can leak into the engine oil.

Kitch · May 5, 2019

It's a 450c. When I filled the hydraulic system with oil the level dropped almost immediately and the oil level in the engine increased. so, it seems a no-brainer that there must be a seal somewhere causing this. Any knowledge on this is greatly appreciated. Well, at least I just finished today the project I was working on.

Jim.ME · May 6, 2019

Unless someone has done something to connect the two, I don't see hydraulic oil getting into the engine oil. The pump is shaft driven from the crank. Hydraulic lines don't connect to the engine.

JDEM · May 6, 2019

When you say the "hydraulic system" you ARE referring to the side-tank with the sight-window, correct? Hydraulic pump for the dozer or loader is a Cessna gear pump mounted outside, in front of the engine and driven by a splined shaft. NO connection to the engine that I can think of.

Kitch · May 6, 2019

Yes, I filled the reservoir that houses the hydraulic oil and somehow it ends up in the crankcase. The pump is mounted to the front of the engine like you said. I was told there MIGHT be an oil cooler that also cools the hydraulic oil and maybe the problem is there, however I don't see that in my manual. Thanks for your response.

JDEM · May 6, 2019

Oils coolers that mount on the engine are cooled by engine coolant, not engine oil. It is an engine oil cooler, not a hydraulic oil cooler.

Roy Suomi · Jun 4, 2019

Sorry no connection between engine and hydraulics.. 2 totally different oil supplies and no pump or valve common to both.

AJ. · Jun 5, 2019

You sure there is no extra equipment fitted that required a an extra hydraulic pump,have a look around the engine for any pump that could be fitted,if you got the machine used the previous owner could have added an extra pump for loads of different reasons,I'd go as far as asking him if you know him.
AJ

Jim.ME · Jun 5, 2019

Its been a month since Kitch started this post and we haven't heard any more from him. One has to wonder what he found and if we all missed a connection between the hydraulic and engine oils. We don't know how much hydraulic oil he added and how much the engine oil went up. Could it be hydraulic oil is leaking out somewhere and the engine oil went up do to a failed umbrella seal putting fuel into the engine oil?

As I understand it 450s and early 450Bs used the engine mounted pump, with a separate reservoir from the main hydraulic reservoir, for power steering. Later 450Bs used engine mounted pump, without the separate reservoir. I believe those were tied into the transmission hydraulic system. The 450Cs, and after, used transmission oil pressure to supply the steering. So it would appear to me a none had a connection between the main hydraulic system and engine. It would seem that would leave only the option of someone plumbed something wrong for a 450C, or the others, to pass hydraulic oil into the engine.

Just my thoughts.

AJ. · Jun 6, 2019

As said he must have solved the problem by now,in the back of my mind I think there was a hydraulic pump fitted to power a winch that was fed from the main tank but I can't remember the exact model,if you solved the issue come back and let us know what you found.
AJ

Jim.ME · Jun 7, 2019

Hi AJ.,

I don't know of a JD winch set up that way, not to say there couldn't be such. The 3325 winches JD supplied for those had a pump internal to the winch which used the oil in the winch housing as a reservoir for operation of the clutch and brake. No fluid connection to the engine or hydraulic system, winch hydraulics are integral to the winches. Just saying what I've seen on them.

It would be nice to know what he found for future reference.

Jim

Kitch · Jun 7, 2019

Winch not a problem. Thanks for your interest... more later

Kitch · Jun 7, 2019

The problem hasn't been exactly solved. Like everyone thinks, there is NO connection between the hydraulic system and the engine. But, there
must be on my JD. I've dealt with it this way; I drained the engine oil to discover it was two quarts high... changed the oil (duh) and left
the hydraulic oil unchanged even though the viewing window to the hydraulic reservoir showed low oil content. Because the problem only
happened after adding 4 qts to the system to bring the level up to where it 'should' be, I decided to run it as is and see what happened.
Well, the hydraulic system works perfectly (6 way blade only) and the engine oil has remained as it should without H oil filtering into it. I
don't how this happened but it's working as it always did before 'filling' the H reservoir. Go figure??? P.S. I'm keeping a close eye on it.

Kitch · Jun 7, 2019

Thanks Jim... see my comments on the
'solution'.

Kitch · Jun 7, 2019

I did and even talked to his mechanic from Kettle River. He said it wasn't possible... lol

Kitch · Jun 7, 2019

Right! WTH???

Kitch · Jun 7, 2019

450 C. Seemingly unaltered.

Kitch · Jun 7, 2019

Yep... thank you

Jim.ME · Jun 7, 2019

Kitch,

Keep close watch on your engine oil to see if it starts getting thinner, feeling gritty, pressure dropping, or smelling stronger of diesel. When the umbrella seals on the injection pump drive shaft fail they let diesel fuel into the engine oil.

There might have been a "bubble" in the hydraulic tank when you filled it, then it burped and dropped to its real level.

I've seen both happen, just never at the same time.

Thanks for the response. Keep us posted on what you find.

Jim

Kitch · Jun 7, 2019

That is the common thought... but... ??? Thanks for your interest.

AJ. · Jun 7, 2019

As Jim said keep an eye on it you don't want the engine oil diluted,this problem without any physical connection sure is a mystery,maybe it's got a Bluetooth connection.
AJ

tom levandoski · Sep 26, 2023

(quoted from post at 00:13:36 06/05/19) Sorry no connection between engine and hydraulics.. 2 totally different oil supplies and no pump or valve common to both.

I have a 450 IH AND HAD hydraulic oil going into the engine changed seal on pump and still doing it is there any place else that it could get in there?

Jim.ME · Sep 26, 2023

(quoted from post at 17:49:40 09/26/23)

(quoted from post at 00:13:36 06/05/19) Sorry no connection between engine and hydraulics.. 2 totally different oil supplies and no pump or valve common to both.

Click to expand...

I have a 450 IH AND HAD hydraulic oil going into the engine changed seal on pump and still doing it is there any place else that it could get in there?

This thread is about a John Deere 450 crawler. Your post looks like you have a 450 International Harvester Ag tractor. If it is an IH, not a 450 John Deere crawler, you will have better luck getting answers on the Farmall & International Harvester (IHC) Discussion Forum below this one. In any case your 450 IH and a 450 JD aren't the same, a new post, of your own, with all the details related to your machine and what you have checked, would be best.

JD 450 Hydraulic oil leaking into engine?

New User

Well-known Member

New User

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

New User

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

New User

New User

New User

New User

New User

New User

New User

Well-known Member

New User

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Similar threads