724 pump drive shaft too short?

I recently reinstalled my 724 loader on my Ford 841 tractor. The pump is relatively new according to the previous owner. The loader worked great at first, probably spent half an hour trying to move stuff on my property a couple weeks ago. Today, it didn't work. At first, it would squeal when I tried to lift the bucket and do almost nothing. I checked the drive shaft, and it was as if it was too short. I could engage it in the engine, but it would appear to be almost off the pump. And then when I started the engine, it would either rumble and make clicking noise or nothing, as the shaft became disconnected from the engine.
There is some wear on the engine end teeth but they don't seem so worn as to prevent engagement.

I can replace the shaft, but if I'm missing something, the problem will just persist.

The pictures I took do not show what I'm describing, but I can get some if needed.

Thank you for your help and advice.

(quoted from post at 22:00:29 03/27/22) I recently reinstalled my 724 loader on my Ford 841 tractor. The pump is relatively new according to the previous owner. The loader worked great at first, probably spent half an hour trying to move stuff on my property a couple weeks ago. Today, it didn't work. At first, it would squeal when I tried to lift the bucket and do almost nothing. I checked the drive shaft, and it was as if it was too short. I could engage it in the engine, but it would appear to be almost off the pump. And then when I started the engine, it would either rumble and make clicking noise or nothing, as the shaft became disconnected from the engine.
There is some wear on the engine end teeth but they don't seem so worn as to prevent engagement.

I can replace the shaft, but if I'm missing something, the problem will just persist.

The pictures I took do not show what I'm describing, but I can get some if needed.

Thank you for your help and advice.

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You might try asking this on the Ford Forum down below. Tractors and loaders like yours are more commonly discussed on that forum. I expect they will want some history such as, Was it off when you got the tractor or did you take it off? How long is the shaft? What coupling does yours have? And post pictures of what you have.

If the shaft is short I would be looking at the pump mounting as well as shaft and coupling(s). If it is a replacement pump, the pump/pump shaft may be different than the original.

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Thanks Jim.[/b:a714d944b8]

Never seen that loader or tractor but had a similar problem with a customers forklift that the engine was changed over on and it was supposed to fit straight in, it did but the shaft was too short, it turned out that we had to have a spacer made to go on the crank pulley as the pulleys was different and the original gone to the crusher before it was realised it was needed.
AJ

Fascinating. Thank you aj. How would the spacer have been installed?

(quoted from post at 13:53:07 04/01/22) Fascinating. Thank you aj. How would the spacer have been installed?

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A spacer would be put between the crank pulley and the drive coupling. Bolt holes would match the holes in the pulley and driven coupling then longer capscrews would be used to hold the coupling and spacer to the pulley.

How long is your shaft, what diameter over the splines, and how many splines on each end?

(quoted from post at 15:09:37 04/01/22)
How long is your shaft, what diameter over the splines, and how many splines on each end?

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Jim, I recognize you asked that in a previous post, I apologize for not following up. I am hoping to have time Saturday to raise the front end, remove the pump and get these parts out for further inspection and measurement. I will probably also measure just how far the shaft can move forward and back before disassembly.

I can't visualize what the spacer would look like, but I imagine longer bolts and some washers between the coupler and pulley would do the trick.

A spacer would be a flat plate, of the thickness needed, (like a thick flat washer). Its outer diameter would match the OD oof the hub. It would have holes, matching the mounting bolt holes in the hub. It might need a large hole in the center to give clearance if there is a bolt in the center of the crank pulley. You would also need to watch how far out you move the drive coupling as it must not hit the axle or axle support as the case may be.

Is that something that would have to be fabricated, or might something like that be for sale somewhere?

Well, the shaft has about 3/8" front to back play and that dimension matches the amount of splines chewed off the engine end of the shaft.

The engine end is 10 spline and the pump end is more, 13 to 16, I have to take another look.

A spacer would need to be fabricated if used behind the engine pulley coupling hub.

Things to look at when you take it apart.

Condition of the splines in the drive coupling on the crank pulley (should be intact with minimal wear the full depth of the hub).

Condition of the shaft splines on the engine coupling end (should be intact with minimal wear the full depth length of the splined area of the shaft).

Condition of the pump end of the shaft. There may be some confusion here, there were several different shafts used. I mentioned shaft dimensions. Is you shaft actually 13 splines on the pump end? Is it the shaft with the four hole spider made on the end of the shaft (looks like it might be this one in the picture in your post on the Ford Forum)? Or is your shaft 3/4"diameter with a key where it goes into the coupling on the pump end and the pump side of the coupling is 13 splines to match the pump? If 3/4" with a key, that end should be locked securely in the coupling hub, not floating. If too deep in the coupling hub and not locked properly that could let it come out from full engagement in the engine coupling hub. How long is your shaft overall? There are different length shafts in some cases.

Condition of the coupling and pump shaft. Again splines should have minimal wear.

Pictures of things you find may help.

This info is from a 725 manual (found in the n tractor club manuals library). The assembled shaft and coupling shouldn't slide back and forth more than a 1/4" in the couplings when the shaft and pump are mounted and fully assembled. If it does the manual says to install 29/64 spacer washers in between the pump end coupling halves. You might be able to use this info to add the spacers to your driveline. If you have worn splines, as it sounds from your description, on the engine end shaft and coupler hub they will likely need to be replaced has part of the repair.

I have only done a bit with loaders on Fords, so I may not have it all correct, or correct at all, that is why I suggested you post this on the Ford Forum. I see you did post there but I think you kind of buried this problem in your post there. That may be why you haven't gotten much response there.

I saw the damage to the shaft end after unbolting the pump. I took a lot of pictures, but not a one turned out right.
I assume the coupler on the engine needs to be replaced. The question on my mind at this point is how to get the shaft out and that coupler off without disassembling the whole front end.
I did not see that play guidance in the loader manual, clearly I need to read it more closely. I saw the spacers in the loader parts manual I have.

The pump splines look good, thankfully. That end has a similar coupler to the engine, just more splines.
Thank you for your help Jim!

(quoted from post at 08:09:26 04/02/22) I saw the damage to the shaft end after unbolting the pump. I took a lot of pictures, but not a one turned out right.
I assume the coupler on the engine needs to be replaced. The question on my mind at this point is how to get the shaft out and that coupler off without disassembling the whole front end.
I did not see that play guidance in the loader manual, clearly I need to read it more closely. I saw the spacers in the loader parts manual I have.

The pump splines look good, thankfully. That end has a similar coupler to the engine, just more splines.
Thank you for your help Jim!

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Remove the pump and pull the shaft out of the engine coupler hub. Often, at least on some, you can find a location (from top, bottom, or a side) where there is just room enough to reach in and remove the capscrews holding the hub to the crank pulley. You may have to do them one at a time and keep barring the engine over by hand to move each capscrew to that sweet spot. sometimes it takes a couple times around as you may need to loosen all 4 some before getting play enough between the hub and crank pulley to completely remove them. I'm not saying this will positively work on yours, you have to try to see. The reaching in part maybe uncomfortable and result in some scraping of flesh, and you may only get small turns on the wrench each time.

I know exactly what you mean, once upon a time I had an 84 dodge with fuel pumps that needed to be replaced. Awkward, tedious, scratch painful. But doable. Thanks for the tips, will post back when I get at it.