Newbie - 1968 JD 450 Crawler

I purchased 14 acres of young plantation pines and built a home last year. I have all these ideas of things I want to do with the land but every time I think about the work involved to remove the trees it stops there. I currently have a few different projects I was getting ready to call the local excavator to come out. Probably 2-3 days $2,000-$3,000 total. And I'm sure I could find more for him to do if money was unlimited.

Been being nosey lately just to see what crawlers are out there and what they go for. Was at my buddies yesterday and looked over at his and said "yeah I've been looking at them online". He said "I have one sitting there I'll sell you". He thinks it's a 1968. JD 450 bucket. It's work ready. Engine was rebuilt 15 years ago and doesn't have but maybe 100 hours on it. I think he said the clutches were rebuilt but the left lever can be a little slow sometimes. As a newbie I'm not really sure what that means. Everything functions properly but the bucket leaks down. He said the tracks are real solid. Has a lot of iron hanging off the back.

I trust this guy as he is a good friend. He wouldn't knowingly hide anything from me. He has no use for it. He doesn't like selling things. He hangs on to everything. I told him I would give him $4,000 for it and he's thinking on it. I see these things listed online anywhere from $7,000-$12,000 in that year range.

What are your opinions? What things should I look at more closely on it? What are the things that break on these machines?

Also, the reason he is thinking on it is not because of the $4,000 price, but because it is an older machine and not that he knows of anything wrong with it, but it is an older machine and things break. I told him if he can get more for it go ahead and he said it wasn't about that. If he truly does want to sell it he will sell it to me for $4,000.

I have a 450C that I have had for 18 years, it has been a good machine for me. Yours would have dry steering clutches. They are OK but do not like to sit idle in wet
weather. For $4,000 for a running machine it is hard for you to go wrong. You could do $4,000 worth of work with it in two weeks!! Most parts are still available and
there are aftermarket parts too as lots of these were made. Some parts are on e-bay!

If it is in usable condition, $4000 is an average price for a loader. Dozer with a 6 way blade would be worth more. I could of
bought a 450 loader last summer for $3200. Those machines kind of scare me - but I was a Deere mechanic for years. 450 has a
few potential problems that won't show up until it's been worked hard for a few hours. HL-R if worn can work great at first
and stop working completely when hot. Engine can also get worn balancing shafts and the result is good oil pressure cold and
near none when good and hot. Those two reasons alone keep me away from 450s. What would you do if you bought it and a month
later the HL-R trans stopped working? Would you spend $5000 at a dealer getting it fixed? Better ask yourself now rather then
later. If I had to pick a Deere, I'd rather have a 350.

DGH......I agree with you on what I could get done in a couple weeks but you are in the minority of the ones not telling me to run. I believe I have been scared off.

Don't be scared.

Talk with the seller and see if he has a place to run it for a hour or so.
That should show up any problems.
JMO.

The 450 was a great little machine, he just pointed out it's
Weak spots.
And I'm partial to Case, and IH, but spent many hours on a 450.
Tom

The 450 series was made for about 30 years with thousands made so that could not be all that bad! The 450 is considerable bigger than the 350 and will do much more work
in a day. Every machine has a weakness they do not last forever. Cat and Deere have the best parts support and the most aftermarket parts available.

My point was not whether the 450 was a good machine or not. When in good shape it is a great machine. Problem is, many
parts for it are proprietary and only come from Deere. Plus 450s can be 50 years old I have seen many go to auction when
they got the problems I mentioned because they are not cost-effective to fix. So yes, others can say they must be good
because they were around so long. So were Model T Fords except I can still get new parts cheap for Model Ts. Go ask your
Deere dealer what it costs to get an HL-R fixed in a 450, IF all the parts are even available. Thus why I would prefer a
350. Easier to work on and cheaper to fix. That all said, I'd prefer a Case crawler. Easier and cheaper yet to work on
compared to Deere. Note I still have my 1960 1010 Deere crawler-loader and love it. However If the hydraulic reverser went
bad tomorrow in it however - I'd likely scrap it out for parts. Just too expensive to fix.

About the engine and the twin balancing shafts. The vast majority of engine rebuilds we did on crawlers at the dealership
were done "in frame." So head, sleeves, pistons, rod and main bearings, injection pump, injectors, and oil-pump. That was
often fine for a 350. 450 has the issue of the balancing shafts that cannot be done easily in-frame so often they got left
as-is. Thus why many turned up later with low to no oil-pressure when hot.

My outlook on old equipment is this. The simpler the better, along with the more generic parts content the better. I will
also note that Deere parts support is NOT what it used to be and is not great for some of these machines even from the 70s.

Any old crawler is built for a certain job. you use it that way and do maint on it and it will last along time. John deere makes a good dozer. To me the most important thing is to know your seller. Has it been shedded, maint performed on it, what did he use it for. Buying one that needs work is a crap shoot. Do your research on the net. The fellow who talked about his reverser was absolutely correct. Some machines will have certain things that will go wrong with it. Usually you can find these things out on the net. case, john deere, allis chalmers are all good dozers if they have been well taken care of. You can buy cheap that may end up being very expensive or pay a little more for a nice machine. For me I like to work on them but most people don't. So use a little commonsense and remember this. THERE IS NO SUCH A THING AS A DUMB QUESTION UNLESS YOU ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER. Although its hard to find find some one you can trust to buy it from. If you have any doubt then back away cause once you buy it its yours Good luck on whatever you buy.

RE . . "THERE IS NO SUCH A THING AS A DUMB QUESTION UNLESS YOU ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER."

I strongly disagree. I've heard and read many a "dumb question where the asker knew, or should of known the answer. But they ask anyway, maybe just to hear themselves talk or to jerk you around.

If you read my post I said if you already knew then you were wrong in asking but you have to remember what you know someone one else my not know or not sure of. I have found it is a lot better to ask questions that you are not sure of before you buy something. Never assume anything. Once you buy it its yours. myself I want anyone to ask me anything about what I am selling. I am no expert but I give you an honest answer on what I know. To many times I hear people saying I wished I had asked that question. Just difference of opinion.

Again to note, the seller is a very good friend and would not hide anything from me. He is an honest person. He also said I can use the machine first. Even said I could take it to my house to use it if I pay the hauling fee. He also trusts me and knows I will take care of it and if anything is going to break it would have broken with him in the seat too. Honestly, this thing will probably just sit at his house and rot if he doesn't sell it to me.

This is a hard decision for me to make. I could easily get $10,000 of work out of this machine over the next couple years and then sell it, hopefully for what I paid for it. All of this is assuming nothing MAJOR breaks. I guess that's the risk you take with a 50 year old machine used for hard work. I would think that what I'm using it for is light work since the trees only average about 4" and I know what I'm working with so I would baby it a bit. No ripping and boring. I definitely don't think I would lose money on it because of the savings by doing it myself. It's the headache of repairs and the time spent on it that I'm worried about. I'm not worried about if I have to put a couple thousand into it because it would be well worth it. I'm more worried about the major stuff such as the transmission issue these are known for.

I have a few thousand dollars worth of work for the excavator that I know I want done now but as soon as he leaves I'm going to say I wish I had him do it that way, etc, etc, etc. Couple months down the road I'm going to want something else done, etc, etc, etc. If I have the machine and it's working good for me I can go get on it and move some trees.

If I was in your shoes I would buy a JD 350D. I have had one since new and it has never failed me. My 350D is smaller but as it was said earlier, easier to repair. You might have a little more hours in the job, but it will get done. Mine has a 6 way blade, winch, rock guards and limb risers. If you plan on getting one don't get sticker shock on the cost of the manuals, they will be in the order of $250-350. Jensales does carry them. Many people get in trouble by leaving them out in the weather all year long. It is best to keep them covered or under a lean to of some kind.

(quoted from post at 06:31:38 04/25/17) If I was in your shoes I would buy a JD 350D. I have had one since new and it has never failed me. My 350D is smaller but as it was said earlier, easier to repair. You might have a little more hours in the job, but it will get done. Mine has a 6 way blade, winch, rock guards and limb risers. If you plan on getting one don't get sticker shock on the cost of the manuals, they will be in the order of $250-350. Jensales does carry them. Many people get in trouble by leaving them out in the weather all year long. It is best to keep them covered or under a lean to of some kind.

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If I don't buy his I'm not buying one at all. Again because of trusting where it comes from.

He has the manual. Thing has to be a few hundred pages.

Like I said, I see "dumb" questions asked often. In a mechanics class I teach, from people responding to ads on Craigslist, etc. Just had it happen this morning. I have a tractor for sale. Price is clearly shown and in big letters says - "price firm and NO trades." So far, I've had two questions from people both asking me what the asking price is, and "will I take anything in trade." I don't even bother to respond to such "dumb" questions.

450 is a rugged machine as far as design goes. Just getting very old and parts for some of it are very expensive. If you know
for sure it works fine now -then there is a good chance it will work well for you, assuming you take care of it. Just keep in
mind the question I asked earlier. If that HL-R trans craps out on you, are you willing to spend $5000-$6000 getting it fixed
- or selling the then non-running machine at a loss? Granted this can happen with any crawler but there are other makes and
models that are much cheaper and easier to work on. Also - if you are a guy that can do all his own repair work and parts
scrounging - it is a different story.

I have one more question. Owner says that the left steering lever can be tough. His father bought the machine 14 years ago and the steering clutches were supposed to have been replaced at that time. As long as he can remember, he says the left steering lever has been tough. It has been used 100 hours this way. It is hard to pull to turn left but if you "pump" it a couple times it does what you want it to. Right side works properly.

Do you guys know what causes this? Is it an adjustment or is it part related?

Yes, there is a "size" adjustment on the steering brake-band. There is also a
"timing" adjustment on the steering brake band. Both need to be right for it to steer
well. If the band is worn out or soaked with grease or mud - adjusting won't work.

Don't the 450's have a steering assist system?
Where you pull the lever and a cylinder activates to help declutch and brake?