Fiat Allis FA 10 Dozer tilt ram measurement needed

Ian Beale

Member

A while ago I rebuilt the tilt cylinder on our FA 10 dozer - straight blade with tilt. The shaft was sent away for re-chroming rather than welding the ball on to a new length of rod.

Prior to this the tilt worked as it ought. After the rebuild I can only get tilt one way. After much puzzling I'm beginning to suspect that the rechrome place has shortened the rod and made a new thread on the piston end. If so there was no discussion about that option. So I need to do a check - without taking the cylinder apart and finding a known good rod to compare!

So can someone with a similar dozer and blade (by the workshop manual a 10B is the same) get me a measurement of the rod length at full cylinder extension - front of packing gland on the cylinder to the rear of the ball pivot assembly on the blade - so I can check what I've got?

If it has been shortened I still get full cylinder travel according to the manual, so ought to be able to make a spacer and add it between blade and pivot assembly. This measurement will help work out how much spacer without a lot of guessing.

TIA
 
If the rod has been shortened it is impossible for it to extend as far as it did before,it will retract fully though,doubt if any pro hydraulic shop would do that as they would know the amount of travel on the rod controls the amount the blade moves.,can't help with the measurements.
AJ
 
Thanks, but tells me you haven't looked at how one of these is set up. I still get the full book spec travel.
 
I can't help on the length, but I don't know of a reputable shop that would do what your saying, if for no other reason than it would cost the heck out of them, there's no reason to do it....not to mention, they know your going to figure it out and come back on them to make it right. No business needs that kind of trouble.

That said, I'd go ahead and tear it down. You may have a bad seal on the piston causing it not to have the force necessary to take the blade all the way to the limit in the one direction. I'd believe this to be more likely than someone shortening the rod.

Now to get an idea on the length of the rod, take the cylinder lose if necessary, but run the rod all the way in. Mark where the face of the cylinder is, and then run the rod all the way out and measure the distance. Using round numbers here, lets say the rod moved 10 inches total stroke. Now, measure the overall length of the barrel. Lets say it's 24 inches. If that were the case, then the rod would be too short. Typically you'll find the gland the rod goes through will be about 3 inches thick. and the piston will be say 2 inches thick, for a total of 5 inches. Add the 5 inches of unusable barrel length to the 10 inch stroke, and the overall length of the barrel will be somewhere around 15 inches long.

Like I said, that's using round numbers, and the size and design of the cylinder will make some difference, but that ought to give you a general idea on things.

Honestly though, I think you've got a bad piston seal. I've build hundreds of cylinders and no matter how careful you are, there will always be 'that one' that got screwed up and works worse after the repair than it did before.

Good luck, and let us know what you find.
 
NCWayne

Thanks.

Well, yes, I'd have thought there would be some mention too. I rebuilt all the cylinders - both blade lift, the tilt and the two ripper cylinders. One of the blade cylinders had been shortened and rethreaded pre-me and had a big nut welded to the piston nut to limit travel as it ran into the rod seal assembly (but then didn't work the travel stop valves - which didn't work because they'd been put in backwards so on the first down extension - - ). Got that sorted with a new rod.

The tilt cylinder is 7"bore and 5 1/4" stroke. I've taken one pin out and measured and I seem to get full travel and it loads the engine either end when the relief valves come in.

Reason I've come to questioning that rod length is that the cylinder seems to be well extended when the adjusting link on the RHS is set to the length in the manual for the tilt to be equal left and right.

As I say it all worked before the rebuild.
 
AJ

Apologies on a reread. I seem to have full ram travel. but the length doesn't fit with where the adjustable link on the RHS should be.

Some more above.
 
Measure the amount of rod out of the cylinder and then the cylinder itself,you can allow about four inches for the piston to get the overall length of the rod,i.e add the four inches to the rod and you will have an idea if the piston is nearing the bottom of the cylinder,he's some cowboy if he cut the rod but why would he do that.
AJ
 
Don't know about the going bald part but, believe it or not, there is actually a discussion going on, at another site I frequent, where a guy is trying his best to say we're all idiots, and there is some bit conspiracy making us all believe the Earth is a sphere, instead of being flat........

In other words, you might be on to something........LOL
 
Thanks.

The book lengths for the manual link on the RHS are

Left tilt 2'9"

even tilt 2'11" (which is incorrectly printed in the book for imperial but corrected here)

Right tilt 3'1 1/4"

At about 2'11" I get left tilt and negligible right, and tghe cylinder is well out.

So the tilt/no tilt here there is about 2 inches of ram travel in question (as per ram stroke of 5 1/2"). And from memory that is about the step in the shaft for the thread.

So my next step is to get a set of longer bolts for the ball joint assembly on the blade so I can space that back about 2 inches and see what happens.

Full confession on the left boot - the blade assembly is worn and a bit sloppy in the joints - but that is as was before I did the cylinder.
 
NCW

I've quoted the Flat Earth Society before.

Not sure how up to speed you are with our here in Oz on government assistance to agriculture. Like SFA. And realize we produce a lot more than we consume and thus are at the whims of world markets.

I once got a letter published in a major newspaper here pointing out that anyone who was talking of a "level playing field in world agricultural product trading" was qualified for membership of the Flat Earth Society.

And if you think your lot cause you problems try looking at the live export cattle ban to Indonesia we had inflicted by Canberra (our Washington DC). Plus our equivalent of your "spotted owls " etc.

Which will help explain why this need for a low cost fix if possible is coming from a "busted aesr rancher"

Some days makes me think that there are plenty of stones left for the ecofadists to go back to the stone age if they so wish.
 

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