Looking to buy a smaller dozer, and sell another...advice

We have a JD 450 B on the farm. Grandpa bought it in the 70's to help clean out some stonewall fences. It worked throuigh the late 70's and early 80's. In 82 or 83 the undercarriage was overhauled; bearings and sprockets replaced, made into a good, tight machine. While doing some work the main bearing spun and/or rocker arm broke...was backed into a shed and sat from 85-2005. In 2005, I was talking to a neighbor whose son-in-law was a heavy equip mechanic and we traded some work for some hay. He pulled the motor and overhauled/fixed it. Brought the motor over to re-install and his father passed the day he was to finish the job. There the motor sat for a few more years...life and projects have c ontinued to get in the way.

So, we have a JD 450B with an undercarriage overhaul - not many hours on it, but having sat for 30 years, with an engine that needs re-overhaul or replace.

My dad wants a dozer to do some projects...not sure if we should a) re-overhaul or replace the engine (overhauled engine can be found for $4500 locally, and hten have someone with knowledge go through the undercarriage
b) buy a replacement dozer - similar size - something newer, and more recently used...$10-12K budget and sell off ours...

If we do sell ours...what is a reasonable asking price ...i think it could be a nice machine for someone with some time and know-how

obviously, there are a million variables here...just looking for a some thoughts...
 
If the undercarriage only has a few years of 'farm use' on it, then it ought to still be in good shape, so I don't see any real issues there.

As far as the engine, why do you think it needs to be overhauled again? If everything was kept undercover, or at least kept dry, it ought to be Ok to use either as it, or with some TLC. That said, for the TLC, you might want to have someone pull it down and insure the piston rings aren't stuck, and just generally look it over, but that isn't that hard to do. Too, the only cost involved would be for a new gasket kit and possibly new rings, given that everything else is already new. This is something that you can probably even do yourself, and save even more money, as all you really need is a service book.

In my opinion, I'd spend a little more on the Deere and get it going -vs- buying another machine. One you'll have a machine with a known history, a new engine, and what should be a good undercarriage. Two even if you were to spend $10,000 on another machine and sold the old one, there would still be a good bit more money spent on the newer one as opposed to spending it on the one you've already got. That leads back to point number one, you spend less money and have a machine that you know -vs- spending more and having another machine with the potential to need a new engine, undercarriage, etc shortly after you buy it, due to the ever present unknowns encountered when buying used equipment.

I work on a lot of the older heavy equipment, and based on what I've seen over the years when customers start buying another piece of equipment instead of fixing what they already have, I would definitely say fix the Deere and save the money for something else, or future repairs to the Deere, as it will be running long after many of the newer used machines have been scrapped.
 
(quoted from post at 09:51:47 02/13/15) If the undercarriage only has a few years of 'farm use' on it, then it ought to still be in good shape, so I don't see any real issues there.

As far as the engine, why do you think it needs to be overhauled again? If everything was kept undercover, or at least kept dry, it ought to be Ok to use either as it, or with some TLC. That said, for the TLC, you might want to have someone pull it down and insure the piston rings aren't stuck, and just generally look it over, but that isn't that hard to do. Too, the only cost involved would be for a new gasket kit and possibly new rings, given that everything else is already new. This is something that you can probably even do yourself, and save even more money, as all you really need is a service book.

In my opinion, I'd spend a little more on the Deere and get it going -vs- buying another machine. One you'll have a machine with a known history, a new engine, and what should be a good undercarriage. Two even if you were to spend $10,000 on another machine and sold the old one, there would still be a good bit more money spent on the newer one as opposed to spending it on the one you've already got. That leads back to point number one, you spend less money and have a machine that you know -vs- spending more and having another machine with the potential to need a new engine, undercarriage, etc shortly after you buy it, due to the ever present unknowns encountered when buying used equipment.

I work on a lot of the older heavy equipment, and based on what I've seen over the years when customers start buying another piece of equipment instead of fixing what they already have, I would definitely say fix the Deere and save the money for something else, or future repairs to the Deere, as it will be running long after many of the newer used machines have been scrapped.


What he said!

Something newer in the 10-12 K range will most likely at least need the pins and bushing turned if not a whole new undercarriage.

Rick
 
Worry about the motor because it sat out, in front of the dozer, outside of the shed, for multiple years...like I said, time, and everything else has gotten in the way, it was always an afterthought....when we found out what was going on with PEte, the original guy working on the motor...we planned to hoist the engine to a safe location, and it was always at the end of our list of stuff to do...
So I am thinking it is going to need a fair amount of work...


Thanks for the opinions and advice...
 
check to see if the engine is free--and then check to see if it has compression---that will give you a better idea on repairs needed
 
If it's been sitting all those years outside, I'll bet the steering clutches are stuck.. Dry clutches have a bad rep of rusting together from sitting uncovered.. Try and roll the engine over by hand.. The worst scenario is pull it down and clean it up , unless the liners/rings are rusted tight..
 
We in Upstate NY, 1/2 hour west of Albany - Duanesburg/Amsterdam area...
if anyone is in the area or knows someone out this way who is good with old dozers, it would be worth getting someone who knows what they are doing to look it over and give us an idea of what we are looking it...
it is tough when a machine sits for so long...benefit is hours stay low...but stuff is meant to be used...
 
I've lived in the general area near Amsterdam for 40 years. I worked at the Deere dealership in Oneonta, NY. I cannot conceive of a $4500 bill to check over the engine you have IF it is as described. You say it was rebuilt 30 years ago and not used. So I assume it has new sleeves, pistons, bearings, balancing shafts, valve job, etc. The worst that could of happened after sitting is a need for new pistons and sleeves. A $600-$700 repair. I'd be more concerned about the steering clutches being stuck. I just sold my Allis Chalmers HD4 diesel with all new engine parts, good tracks, rollers and sprockets, etc. All apart though. I sold the whole mess for $1800 and it was a tough sell. I bet your 450B is worth a lot more to keep and fix, as compared to selling it "as is."
 
I am employed at a JD dealer in south-central Pa, there is a used 450-B complete engine setting in our warehouse if you want to check into it. (I drove the machine on & off the trailer to get it here.)
 

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